Hate to be negative..

[Thomas]

But after playing this game for a few days it feels more like an dexpansion pack than a new game. It's like SC1 with better graphics and a few new units. I as sort of expecting somethign surprising and mind altering like when Warcraft 3 came out (upkeep, heroes, etc) this seems like it should be called Broodwars version B.

=[

[Draguzul]

I'd reserve judgement until you play the single player campaign. So far all we've seen is the multiplayer offering and the new ladder system alone is worth while. It sounds like most of the innovations are going to be found in the single player campaign. I'm assuming if the information from the various interviews and demo's we've seen is correct, there will be plenty to talk about come release. I could be considered optimistic however.

[Shinosai]

Heroes in war3 pretty much ruined any purpose of split attacks. The game quickly became one of who has the better army, with the occasional air harrass. Upkeep punished people for having large armies and made expanding more than once typically pointless. Either of these mechanics would ruin sc2.

As for this being sc1 with better graphics: The strategies are completely different and I for one am enjoying the game. I'd rather not they introduce new "mechanics" that make the game less strategic (like war3)

[Streetwise]

But after playing this game for a few days it feels more like an dexpansion pack than a new game. It's like SC1 with better graphics and a few new units. I as sort of expecting somethign surprising and mind altering like when Warcraft 3 came out (upkeep, heroes, etc) this seems like it should be called Broodwars version B.

=[

Its a sequel. Not only that but they want you to feel like you are playing Starcraft. They arent trying to make anything new. They are simply improving on what is argueable one of the best RTS games of all time. I dont think it was ever their intention to come out with something innovative either, they are sticking to what works and trying to improve it with modern graphical standards as well as adding other features to help it catch on as an E-Sport.

[Citanzero]

This game has consumed my life for the past few days.

I played the original in 98, and for many years after, and this is everything it should be.

I have already become sad with each patch that changes things, I don't even know why, since it is for the better of the game.

It is, like someone else said, supposed to feel and play just like the original--thank god they didn't change it to something like Warcraft 3.

[Entropia]

sc1 was the best rts of all time, why would you want something different other than just graphical/ui/ease of use enhancements combined with new bnet and mod community?

Seems perfect to me. =]

[Oneeyeded]

Heroes in war3 pretty much ruined any purpose of split attacks. The game quickly became one of who has the better army, with the occasional air harass. Upkeep punished people for having large armies and made expanding more than once typically pointless. Either of these mechanics would ruin sc2.

As for this being sc1 with better graphics: The strategies are completely different and I for one am enjoying the game. I'd rather not they introduce new "mechanics" that make the game less strategic (like war3)

You have no clue as to what you are talking about. Over all wc3 required much more unit to unit micro, split attacks were quite common among pros and the upkeep gave the advantage to the person who could micro with the smaller army and win, that my friend takes skill. Now that's not to say im not enjoying sc2 but the one thing I'm really disliking is that there is only so much you can do on the map, maybe im just so use to wc3 but with wc3 we had to harass, creep and manage our town, it seems like there's 2 much sitting around in sc2 and all the maps are 2 much a like. I'm not saying blizz should include wc3 mechanics into sc2 but something needs to change slightly in the multiplayer. They really need to do a wc4 if you ask me...

[Zaq]

Pretty much all the "mind altering" stuff they put into WC3 was exactly what was wrong with it and ruined it. It was a major step back from SC.

[Namhcir]

Heroes in war3 pretty much ruined any purpose of split attacks. The game quickly became one of who has the better army, with the occasional air harrass. Upkeep punished people for having large armies and made expanding more than once typically pointless. Either of these mechanics would ruin sc2.

As for this being sc1 with better graphics: The strategies are completely different and I for one am enjoying the game. I'd rather not they introduce new "mechanics" that make the game less strategic (like war3)

that is false, you should watch some high level games.. consistantly in human mirror vs. cruncher or sonkie i found myself fighting in 3-4 different spots on the map at the same time basically the entire game, it was very fun and annoying at the same time.

And in pro level when you watch koreans play, its even crazier, not in all matchups but in a good portion of em you get alot of split army fighting, you creep while you harass their creeping while air harassing their base at same time... this happens ALOT with any undead player, so how is there not split fighting?

[Thomas]

I dont think it was ever their intention to come out with something innovative either,

Mission accomplished then. I am not saying Sc1 was nto incredible, it was one of the best games I have ever played, but then so was War 3, D2 and Wow. It just seems like they could have released what we have in Sc2 8 years ago, not much new thought or innovation has been put in to justify how long we have waited.

[paradox]

they have not been developing for that long... the heroes will be available in custom map games and im sure there will be a community that will make and play these games. just dont expect a ladder

[Pandemonium]

I kind of agree with the OP, and whatever happened to the fourth race?

[Zasz]

I kind of agree with the OP, and whatever happened to the fourth race?

Adding races is a surefire way to unbalance the game. And what would they add? It's almost as if people want new things just for the sake of having new things.

This model worked 10 years ago, and it works today too, only with better graphics, sounds, user interactions, and new units.

The reason those other RTS's (DoW and even War3) put in revolutionary new RTS features was they were trying to be the next Starcraft. And guess what? They failed.

[Oneeyeded]

wc3 was the new starcraft and is easily the best RTS of all time, starcraft is a close second. Heroes are what made it better.

[Panthers]

This game is also so different. Many different strats, plus those new units you talked about change things up a lot. And lets not mention the biggest change, the speed. This game is a lot faster than SC1. In all it feels like a different game with the same amazing formula.

[Serpico]

wc3 was the new starcraft and is easily the best RTS of all time, starcraft is a close second. Heroes are what made it better.

wat....

[Namhcir]

wc3 was the new starcraft and is easily the best RTS of all time, starcraft is a close second. Heroes are what made it better.

yes and no, it was the rpg element and it is not a requirement, I myself loved warcraft 3 ALOT but Starcraft 2 has a lot more potential going for it, especially on a pro level and for the fanbase, watching starcraft 2 games are alot of fun... starcraft 1 games were really really boring to watch yet fun to play.. warcraft 3 was awesome to play, but still pretty damn boring to watch most of the matchups..

Starcraft 2 is pretty fast paced no matter the matchup right now, and its great

[Dalcyon]

wc3 was the new starcraft and is easily the best RTS of all time, starcraft is a close second. Heroes are what made it better.

wat^2

[Tornare]

wc3 was the new starcraft and is easily the best RTS of all time, starcraft is a close second. Heroes are what made it better.

I loved WC3 for its custom maps, and i enjoyed its single player campain. I hated the small scale of online, and the fact that you had to put so much focus on one single hero. I have always felt Starcraft was more balanced, and a better overall game because of this.

[Dalcyon]

But after playing this game for a few days it feels more like an dexpansion pack than a new game. It's like SC1 with better graphics and a few new units. I as sort of expecting somethign surprising and mind altering like when Warcraft 3 came out (upkeep, heroes, etc) this seems like it should be called Broodwars version B.

=[

I, on the other hand, think this is the Starcraft 2 ive been waiting for my whole life!! It feels so familiar(like you said) and yet so fresh(not what you said).

Granted alot of old units came back, there's alot of new units that you have to learn how to use. I honestly believe, from what I've seen in this beta, that this game deserves the "2". I can't wait for Blizz to unveil the next part of the story though.

You talk about upkeep and heroes on wc3.
Starcraft can never have that kind of radical changes. You see, they're setting up SC2 as an esport. That means they have to tread lightly in implementing changes that you have mentioned. Blizzard believes that you shouldn't fix what ain't broke.

For me, the new units and 3D is enough change already.But I welcome any changes they make on release, on the expansion and the next expansion.

[Joey]

wc3 was the new starcraft and is easily the best RTS of all time, starcraft is a close second. Heroes are what made it better.

As a new player to the Starcraft universe, and old player of the war universe, I'm inclined to feel that way sometimes as well, but please... please.. don't write that on these forums for the sake of humanity.

[Xal]

wc3 was the new starcraft and is easily the best RTS of all time, starcraft is a close second. Heroes are what made it better.

wat

[Nick]

How does something like Gears of War 2 pass as a sequel when this can't?

This is - I swear - the definition of a good sequel.

[Sosteezy]

wc3 was the new starcraft and is easily the best RTS of all time, starcraft is a close second. Heroes are what made it better.

lol wat

[Zaq]

wc3 was the new starcraft and is easily the best RTS of all time, starcraft is a close second. Heroes are what made it better.

wat^3

Everyone knows heros are what made WC3 strategically shallow and that's why it never caught on.

[Baked]

But after playing this game for a few days it feels more like an dexpansion pack than a new game. It's like SC1 with better graphics and a few new units. I as sort of expecting somethign surprising and mind altering like when Warcraft 3 came out (upkeep, heroes, etc) this seems like it should be called Broodwars version B.

=[

while this makes you sad it makes me happy

[Brian]

Hasn't anyone figured this out yet ... almost every successful sequel in the gaming industry hasn't changed their product much from their previous. In another post I mentioned the remake of "Pirates!" for the PC. They did a damn good job keeping the game the same way while adding a few things and updating it. The Civilization series is exactly the same way. So is the Total War series ... except for their last game, which shall never be spoken of. Hell, look at Diablo. D2 wasn't a success because it changed everything around. And why was Supreme Commander such a big hit to it's fans? Because it was Total Annihilation with a new engine, better graphics, and different units. Apparently TA2 is going to fail horribly but that's more to do with the publisher, not the devs. Another example is Command and Conquer. Notice anything about the latest games that sold so well? They were created to function like the old ones did! Live action clips instead of what they tried and failed to do in games like Generals.

So please ... for the love of god ... do a little research into sequels. If you wanted to see Starcraft Reimagined then you should have picketed Blizzard to bring back Starcraft: Ghost.

[Acosnil]

Most people will be butt hurt over how much micro WC3 took.

Fact of the matter is that WC3 and SC are not comparable anymore than say, SC and COH or WC3 and AOE3.

Yeah, there's going to be a lot of people playing SC2 and expecting it to not be SC at all.

SC wasn't broken, ergo there being nothing to fix.

[Inoob]

SC wasn't broken, ergo there being nothing to fix.

and yet they fixed it up quite a bit. and they will be fixing it for another 6 months. the game is far from perfect man.

i like most of the new stuff they did to the game mechanics, but it could still use a lot of refinement, and completing half implemented functionality.

( and about 20% more health for all units/buildings ;) )

[Nitro]

I, on the other hand, think this is the Starcraft 2 ive been waiting for my whole life!! It feels so familiar(like you said) and yet so fresh(not what you said).

Granted alot of old units came back, there's alot of new units that you have to learn how to use. I honestly believe, from what I've seen in this beta, that this game deserves the "2". I can't wait for Blizz to unveil the next part of the story though.

You talk about upkeep and heroes on wc3.
Starcraft can never have that kind of radical changes. You see, they're setting up SC2 as an esport. That means they have to tread lightly in implementing changes that you have mentioned. Blizzard believes that you shouldn't fix what ain't broke.

For me, the new units and 3D is enough change already.But I welcome any changes they make on release, on the expansion and the next expansion.

[Joneleth]

I, on the other hand, think this is the Starcraft 2 ive been waiting for my whole life!! It feels so familiar(like you said) and yet so fresh(not what you said).

For me, the new units and 3D is enough change already.But I welcome any changes they make on release, on the expansion and the next expansion.+1


There's a reason SC remains -the- RTS even after over 10 years. ★

and whatever that reason is, don't fix what ain't broke, as Confucious say. or something.

[Messana]

But after playing this game for a few days it feels more like an dexpansion pack than a new game. It's like SC1 with better graphics and a few new units. I as sort of expecting somethign surprising and mind altering like when Warcraft 3 came out (upkeep, heroes, etc) this seems like it should be called Broodwars version B.

=[

Yeah, and heroes + creeps completely ruined Warcraft RTS. Sorry, they weren't going to make the same mistake again. SC was an amazing game. SC2 is going to be an amazing game because they didn't try to completely change the game like they did with WC2 - WC3.

Edit: And to all the die hard wc3 fans that think it was a better "rts." You are the minority.

[Zasz]

wc3 was the new starcraft and is easily the best RTS of all time, starcraft is a close second. Heroes are what made it better.

I respect your opinion if you liked Wc3 better than SC, but understand that most people disagree with you. And "the best RTS of all time" is determined by the majority thinking just that.

[Inoob]

both starcraft and warcraft have problems. neither is 100% balanced.

the majority doesnt agree that sc is better. have you actually counted heads? or are starcraft players just more vocal about the matter?! i bet its about even.

if a product is released that works prefectly fine but a bunch of people only complain on forums that their purchased item had faults, does that mean that all of the items are at fault, or just that the vocal members with broken products seem to put it out of proportion?

how about xbox fans bashing all other games on forums and praising halo as the best thing since sliced bread? does that make halo more fun than cod? i dont think so. cod players just focus on playing the game and dont need to be vocal on the matter.

i bet that the majority of war3 players dont really care to speak praises for war3. they had their fun with the game for the last number of years, and now they want to play something new. its as simple as that. its not about returning to sc... the real rts like some purists seem to think. its about playing a new game and enjoying it for that.

the fact that starcraft fans didnt like war3 and voiced their opinions on... STARCRAFT forums means little , or nothing at all. there is a lot of great stuff in war3 that could be brought over to expand the starcraft universe to make it more interesting. maybe not heros, but theres other stuff. being a purist isn't getting you anywhere.

[Kralic]

Here is the thing. Blizzard will not frown upon a certain group of players who remake every ladder map to support heroes and run a custom ladder league. It will happen for those that want to play with heroes in SC2. The official ladder will not but look @ how many people stick to official ladders. The people who run these leagues can adjust the heroes for balancing purposes that they see fit as well.

[Yaji]

Heroes in war3 pretty much ruined any purpose of split attacks. The game quickly became one of who has the better army, with the occasional air harrass. Upkeep punished people for having large armies and made expanding more than once typically pointless. Either of these mechanics would ruin sc2.

As for this being sc1 with better graphics: The strategies are completely different and I for one am enjoying the game. I'd rather not they introduce new "mechanics" that make the game less strategic (like war3)

Agreed. I hated the heroes in WC3.. It always made it feel more like an RPG with strategy elements instead of a strategy. Most custom games were some variation of DoTA or tower defense.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with WC3, I'm just saying that as a starcraft fan, warcraft wasn't my cup of tea. And I can see someone who is judging things on the basis of warcraft 3 would not necessarily like all the elements of Starcraft.

I think the distinction and micromanagement elements that some players are showing a distaste for are by design to better create a distinction between the two games.

Also, in regards to the sc1 comment, as stated above, the strategies are totally different. As someone who wasted their childhood playing starcraft and knows it farrrr too well, I can proudly state that I SUCK at starcraft 2 and like to believe I would still hold my own in SC1.

[Namhcir]

Yeah, and heroes + creeps completely ruined Warcraft RTS. Sorry, they weren't going to make the same mistake again. SC was an amazing game. SC2 is going to be an amazing game because they didn't try to completely change the game like they did with WC2 - WC3.

Edit: And to all the die hard wc3 fans that think it was a better "rts." You are the minority.

ill probably always like war3 more because of the rpg element and the never sitting in ur base type gameplay, but it was horribly broken and they never could fix imbalances... and LUCK.. luck was actually a huge factor in war3 i won and lost games based on luck quite often, silence staff instantly making ur army worthless was really fucking retarded yet those items were in it...

tomes of exp giving u a level 3 hero vs. his level 2 etc etc etc

Warcraft had LUCK and luck does not belong in any competitive game, that was the downfall of warcraft 3, not the rpg element of heroes.. the random item drops were

Sc2 is much more fun to watch than war3 was as well, which will make it gain a lot more popularity as an e-sport, hopefully in america even

[Eloderung]

I don't think the game was meant to be changed too much, and (minus a few things like the counter system) that's what blizzard did.

It's a solid sequel. I WAS pretty much expecting SCI with new mechanics, some new units, new graphics, and refinements to gameplay and that's what I got, in terms of the melee/ladder game.

I'm not a huge fan of melee though and never was, so I'll reserve judgement on how amazing this game is by how the Galaxy editor is. But if it's as good as they say it will be, I'll be very excited to buy this game when retail hits.

I personally enjoyed War3's style of melee more, but that's personal preference. However, the Galaxy editor and universe will make me enjoy this game far more than the former.

[Wyndrunner]

To each his own. I really didn't like the shift to heroes with War3. It just wasn't for me.

I really think SC2 is different in all the right ways, looking at just the multiplayer and how it's similar but different. I feel much more in control of my units, their pathing, using abilities, etc. It's taken Starcraft and added everything that RTS games have improved on since then.

I'm absolutely loving it, even if I get frustrated when I lose sometimes :)

[Neoscout]

/sage

[ghost]

Hate to be negative... but WC3 was the biggest disappointment ever...

Heroes and Upkeep and leveling and goblin shop or w/e the crap it was, did NOT blow my mind, i gave away my copy after i realized it was about levling up heroes buying items and killing nuetral enemies and penalizing people for having large armies.

SC2 is awesome.

[Zasz]

Hate to be negative... but WC3 was the biggest disappointment ever...

Heroes and Upkeep and leveling and goblin shop or w/e the crap it was, did NOT blow my mind, i gave away my copy after i realized it was about levling up heroes buying items and killing nuetral enemies and penalizing people for having large armies.

SC2 is awesome.

This. Although I will say I enjoyed WC3 for a while...if only because it was something new, and probably because I was never that good at SC1. But now that this is here...

[Michael]

WTF ever. Wc3 is amazing. Both SC1, SC2, WC3 = mind blowing fun.

[Wingless]

Originally posted by Thomas.bchillin

But after playing this game for a few days it feels more like an dexpansion pack than a new game. It's like SC1 with better graphics and a few new units. I as sort of expecting somethign surprising and mind altering like when Warcraft 3 came out (upkeep, heroes, etc) this seems like it should be called Broodwars version B.

=[

Im glad it stuck near the original. Its great.

[Kranden]

Warcraft 3 was a great game, but in the world of Esports Warcraft is the shuffleboard to Starcrafts Olympics.