View Full Version : Problem Solved: Replace Lift-Off with Fly-To
Joneleth
03-18-2010, 07:18 PM
STAND BACK!! I've been struck with inspiration:
Change Terran Lift-Off to a targeted order instead of a mode toggle. Basically, replace Lift-Off with the functionality of Land.
When you click on Fly-To, the structure doesn't take off until you choose a suitable destination for the structure to land on.
Once in transit, the structure cannot change direction or accept any Move commands.
If the destination becomes occupied by the time the structure arrives there, it'll hang in the air until the spot is vacated or you issue a new Fly-To order, on some other valid locaition.
Since you can still target structure placement on unexplored areas of the map, everyone is happy and Lift-Off can't be abused [much] anymore, and this thread wins. ★
Tehschoolbus
03-18-2010, 07:19 PM
Why not also allow any enemy unit that touches it to claim it as their own? That way its even less OP because the other player can steal your buildings!
Oh wait, and then have marauders capable of only attacking themselves, and make the mothership only able to cloak enemy units?
Man I can't wait till the release!
Retrovirus
03-18-2010, 07:20 PM
FLAVOR, lets not lose it.
Joneleth
03-18-2010, 07:21 PM
FLAVOR, lets not lose it.NOTHING will be lost by not letting you hang in the air indefinitely over unbuildable terrain!
Retrovirus
03-18-2010, 07:22 PM
NOTHING will be lost by not letting you hang in the air indefinitely over unbuildable terrain! what percent of games comes down to beating a terran, and having him be an ass and hide for one, and for two how many of those games do you not have the money to build 1 air unit to end it?
Jimhorton
03-18-2010, 07:23 PM
NOTHING will be lost by not letting you hang in the air indefinitely over unbuildable terrain!
Unless your army is working to clear a safe spot , or to just end the game completely.
Deviant
03-18-2010, 07:24 PM
Once again, this does not solve the issue of terran landing on islands and playing the 'waiting' game.
Wizbeski
03-18-2010, 07:25 PM
Also it'll be a problem to switch two terran buildings with each other for their addons, would make it more of a hassle than it already is.
Re: Problem Solved: Replace Lift-Off
There is a problem here?
Could someone explain to me what it is, and why they feel it is so drastically unfair?
Joneleth
03-18-2010, 07:27 PM
Once again, this does not solve the issue of terran landing on islands and playing the 'waiting' game.
Also it'll be a problem to switch two terran buildings with each other for their addons, would make it more of a hassle than it already is.hmmm - - '
guess those stalemated people are SOL lol
Who cares. As long as it doesn't happen to us <_<
Kinaesthesia
03-18-2010, 07:28 PM
what percent of games comes down to beating a terran, and having him be an ass and hide for one, and for two how many of those games do you not have the money to build 1 air unit to end it?
Surprisingly many. And again, surprisingly many games of the first variety also come into the field of the second.
Coryo
03-18-2010, 07:29 PM
Nothing will be lost?
Once in transit, the structure cannot change direction or accept any Move commands.
What if the CC I'm floating over to an expansion is intercepted by a pack of Mutalisks? I can't tell it to turn around and move over to the ledge that has my marines on it and some SCVs waiting to repair it?
What if I need to quickly move multiple buildings somewhere else and I don't have to the time to figure out the exact placement of each one at that moment?
What if I have an expo (or any building for that matter) being attacked by a few ground only units? I can't just lift it and let it wait for reinforcements? What if said expo is attacked by a group of Vikings? Can I juggle my CC between air and ground making them do the same/force them to put half in each mode?
Sometimes I don't end up using my factory much. Can I no longer use it in the air for increased LoS? Or what if I want to let it soak up a few hits from hydralisks/stalkers as I bring in my banshees?
What if your idea is implemented, how does it stop stalemates? If a hovering building is unkillable to you from that point on, what difference does it make if I landed it on an island somewhere?
IMO a better solution would be to just create a draw feature. If I destroyed all your workers/main buildings but you still have an army, and you destroyed my army but I still have my main buildings... who deserves to take the loss? A draw would work, but don't be limiting one of the defining abilities of a race. That would be like making Zerg have to queue units, or probes having to stand by their buildings until it is completely summoned in.
Originally posted by Joneleth.invictus
STAND BACK!! I've been struck with inspiration:
Change Terran Lift-Off to a targeted order instead of a mode toggle. Basically, replace Lift-Off with the functionality of Land.
When you click on Fly-To, the structure doesn't take off until you choose a suitable destination for the structure to land on.
Once in transit, the structure cannot change direction or accept any Move commands.
If the destination becomes occupied by the time the structure arrives there, it'll hang in the air until the spot is vacated or you issue a new Fly-To order, on some other valid locaition.
Since you can still target structure placement on unexplored areas of the map, everyone is happy and Lift-Off can't be abused [much] anymore, and this thread wins. ★
This kind of ruins the ability to save your buildings from ground-only units by lifting them.
Barcibus
03-18-2010, 07:31 PM
No draw feature. It will be abused by Terrans. Better to have a new condition for win to force some fighting if stalemate conditions are reached.
Was lift off not in starcraft 1?
serious question.
Coryo
03-18-2010, 07:34 PM
Was lift off not in starcraft 1?
serious question.
It was in, and you could lift CC, barracks, factory, starport and even engineering bay.
.............
Yes it's hard to imagine 12 years ago (When I was 10) that I did not play this game, and that I would be interested in an RTS game now. I really hope that period spam wasn't directed towards me.
Anyway.... did people complain about it this much back then?
Coryo
03-18-2010, 07:36 PM
Yes it's hard to imagine 12 years ago (When I was 10) that I did not play this game, and that I would be interested in an RTS game now. I really hope that period spam wasn't directed towards me.
Anyway.... did people complain about it this much back then?
People only really complained if you lifted up your buildings and kept them over top of stuff like turrets/tanks making them unclickable, and it wasn't allowed in competitive leagues.
So then all the complaining about it now simply rehashed drivel?
as much as i hate the concept of someone prolonging a game with a flying ship, your suggestions neuter terran.
Time to change this thread to
"I knew what the Terran was going to do but I felt like trading bases anyway, and now I'm real mad."
Coryo
03-18-2010, 07:40 PM
So then all the complaining about it now simply rehashed drivel?
Well I can see where the frustration is coming from, but I don't think any solution should involve nerfing something that is so integral to the Terran.
STAND BACK!! I've been struck with inspiration:
Change Terran Lift-Off to a targeted order instead of a mode toggle. Basically, replace Lift-Off with the functionality of Land.
When you click on Fly-To, the structure doesn't take off until you choose a suitable destination for the structure to land on.
Once in transit, the structure cannot change direction or accept any Move commands.
If the destination becomes occupied by the time the structure arrives there, it'll hang in the air until the spot is vacated or you issue a new Fly-To order, on some other valid locaition.
Since you can still target structure placement on unexplored areas of the map, everyone is happy and Lift-Off can't be abused [much] anymore, and this thread wins. ★
Seriously, stop posting crap like this. Don't put yourself in a position where a stalemate is possible, and we won't have to listen to you whine about it on the forums. It's win-win.
Shinosai
03-18-2010, 07:42 PM
Time to change this thread to
"I knew what the Terran was going to do but I felt like trading bases anyway, and now I'm real mad."
Quoted for truth.
Chung
03-18-2010, 07:43 PM
Land on an island.
Problem NOT solved! :D
Apollo
03-18-2010, 07:44 PM
Wait guys...i've got it.....we give all protoss and zerg players a BIG red button on their UI that, when pressed, blows up all buildings that aren't landed! GENIUS! It also lets them kill off any CC that a terran may be trying to fly to an expansion! Man..i'm on FIRE tonight!
Joneleth
03-18-2010, 07:45 PM
Seriously, stop posting crap like this. Don't put yourself in a position where a stalemate is possible, and we won't have to listen to you whine about it on the forums. It's win-win.Another retarded assumption that every thread re: Lift-Off is the product of a game ending in a stalemate. （の＿の）srsly, l2read, even if you didn't need to much in the MMO you stumbled into here from.
Rushock
03-18-2010, 07:46 PM
You, sir, are trying to make Failcraft.
Another retarded assumption that every thread re: Lift-Off is the product of a game ending in a stalemate. （の＿の）srsly, l2read, even if you didn't need to much in the MMO you stumbled into here from.
I read your post, and I'm seeing through your bad attempt at disguising your intentions. You're by far the most vocal opponent of Lift-Off on the forums, for one reason or another, whether it be because of stalemates or the lack of island maps.
Lift-Off is fine. It's fine on land maps and it's fine on island maps. This has been a core mechanic of the Terran race for 12 years. Deal with it.
EDIT: And speaking of retarded assumptions, what makes you think I play MMO's over RTS's? Because I disagree with you? Because I'm obviously a better player since I don't lose games to Lift-Off (lol)?
Darthmidget
03-18-2010, 07:48 PM
You know what's hilarious? This thread. It's hilarious. Lift-Off is not going anywhere. Your suggestions are pointless. Blizzard is not going to change one of the fundamental things about the Terran. IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Get over it. Better yet, get better and make something other than just zealots.
Joneleth
03-18-2010, 07:49 PM
You know what's hilarious? This thread. It's hilarious. Lift-Off is not going anywhere. Your suggestions are pointless. Blizzard is not going to change one of the fundamental things about the Terran. IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Get over it. Better yet, get better and make something other than just zealots. Meanwhile Blizzard has already removed Lift-Off for at least one structure, the Engineering Bay, while you carried on with the token resistance to any suggestion that tries to go against the status quo, only to happily wag tails once it does get implemented.
Not that you'll be crawling out of Bronze anytime soon, however it ends up.
Meanwhile Blizzard has already removed Lift-Off for at least one structure, the Engineering Bay, while you carried on with the token resistance to any suggestion that tries to go against the status quo, only to happily wag tails once it does get implemented.
Not that you'll be crawling out of Bronze anytime soon, however it ends up.
Is it really necessary to bash on someone's rank because how they feel about a certain subject? Come on guy, I've seen your posts they were much more poised than that.
In any matter, Liftoff for a non-production structure (engi bay) did seem kind of silly, if it really was in sc1 like you said, I can see why it was removed.
Darthmidget
03-18-2010, 07:51 PM
Meanwhile Blizzard has already removed Lift-Off for at least one structure, the Engineering Bay, while you carried on with the token resistance to any suggestion that tries to go against the status quo, only to happily wag tails once it does get implemented.
Yeah, Blizzard is going to change something fundamental about the Terran in the beta phase of developement. That is not going to happen.
Not that you'll be crawling out of Bronze anytime soon, however it ends up.
Aw, now you're just getting nasty. Whatsa matter, did I hurt your feelings with the truth? LOL
Joneleth
03-18-2010, 07:52 PM
Is it really necessary to bash on someone's rank because how they feel about a certain subject? Come on guy, I've seen your posts they were much more poised than that..
It was just a suggestion, proven wrong, I admit, but then you get these tools (most of which mostly play just Terran) picking on pointless stuff without offering anything better than just ignoring the fact that there's more stalemates occurring than they should, in a polished balance system, never mind the skill of the players involved.
Hell I use Lift-Off a lot and don't want to see any race losing one of their core themes, but it's not like I'm afraid of dropping a few ranks if it ever got gimped without being removed altogether, just like how Burrow got moved up a Tier.
Anyway. How about just giving all structures a total airtime of like 10-minutes? i.e. no single Terran building should be able to stay afloat for a total combined time, across all the Lift-Offs it has done, of more than 10 minutes.
10 minutes is a whole freaking lot. If you're on unbuildable terrain when the time runs out it should go kaboom.
I would go with 10 minute per building, which is like breathing in wow.
I think we could agree no building should be in the air for 10 consecutive minutes, but it's not my decision, and from what I'm told this ability existed in sc1 and people were able to persist just fine.
Meanwhile Blizzard has already removed Lift-Off for at least one structure, the Engineering Bay, while you carried on with the token resistance to any suggestion that tries to go against the status quo, only to happily wag tails once it does get implemented.
Not that you'll be crawling out of Bronze anytime soon, however it ends up.
While the true intentions of Blizzard are unknown to most, it can be argued that Lift-Off was removed from the Engineering Bay to prevent cheese where you hover it over your units to make them unclickable (Siege Tanks in SC1). If you were just building a Bay to get turrets, then it was pretty useless after that and people would use it in this manner, whereas people are more reluctant to use their production buildings like that.
Also, there was no real point to Lift-Off on an Engineering Bay. Moving production buildings/command centers had a purpose, whether it be to proxy them, move to an add-on, expand to an island, etc.
So you can hardly take that particular change as a sign of things to come for Lift-Off. In fact, it kind of makes it seem like Blizzard already looked at Lift-Off at least a little bit and decided not to change it at all.
Namhcir
03-18-2010, 07:55 PM
STAND BACK!! I've been struck with inspiration:
Change Terran Lift-Off to a targeted order instead of a mode toggle. Basically, replace Lift-Off with the functionality of Land.
When you click on Fly-To, the structure doesn't take off until you choose a suitable destination for the structure to land on.
Once in transit, the structure cannot change direction or accept any Move commands.
If the destination becomes occupied by the time the structure arrives there, it'll hang in the air until the spot is vacated or you issue a new Fly-To order, on some other valid locaition.
Since you can still target structure placement on unexplored areas of the map, everyone is happy and Lift-Off can't be abused [much] anymore, and this thread wins. ★
this is never getting changed fyi, it was in sc1 forever and no pros have a problem with this, only noobs.
Tenneon
03-18-2010, 07:56 PM
For the sake of completeness- the Science Facility could also lift off.
Shurimpu
03-18-2010, 07:57 PM
Is this a problem now? Really? Any single air unit can kill a stalling Terran.
I understand that sentence may be a bit complicated for the new players. An Air Unit is a Unit that can freaking FLY, like lift-off. You can use them over any terrain and kill flying buildings.
Cool, huh? Yet another example of StarCraft Balance That Has Always Freaking Been There, So Quit Bawwing (tm).
Land on an island.
Problem NOT solved! :D
+1
shadow
03-18-2010, 07:59 PM
I have the solution. Everyone.
New abilities for Protoss and Zerg!
Protoss
Key buildings get the ability
[Dimensional Shift]
At any point in time, your building is able to COMPLETELY SHIFT OUT OF THE CURRENT DIMENSION. You are then free to move said building ANYWHERE ON THE FLIPPING MAP, untargetable,and undetectable, except by blind firing from air units.
Zerg
[The Clap]
At any point in time, a building can receive the debuff [The Clap] which effectively makes any units incapable of getting close enough to fire upon the building. Only the Super air units will be able to get close enough to fire and destroy such buildings with [The Clap]
THERE. now everyone has a stalemate option
/end sarcasm
=]
Shurimpu
03-18-2010, 08:00 PM
I like it, man :> Except instead of The Clap, it should be Spawn Crabs, and make the nearby creep look all gross and flaky 8D
Joneleth
03-18-2010, 08:01 PM
I have the solution. Everyone.
New abilities for Protoss and Zerg!
Protoss
Key buildings get the ability
[Dimensional Shift]
At any point in time, your building is able to COMPLETELY SHIFT OUT OF THE CURRENT DIMENSION. You are then free to move said building ANYWHERE ON THE FLIPPING MAP, untargetable,and undetectable, except by blind firing from air units.
Zerg
[The Clap]
At any point in time, a building can receive the debuff [The Clap] which effectively makes any units incapable of getting close enough to fire upon the building. Only the Super air units will be able to get close enough to fire and destroy such buildings with [The Clap]
THERE. now everyone has a stalemate optionWin. I hope this makes it into the Beta.
IN FACT, this deserves its own thread ★ http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23425467801
If you were really going to "fix" it (I don't particularly subscribe to the idea there's anything that needs fixing here) then the easiest fairest way would be:
Step 1) Flying building has a fuel gauge that's consumed each "flight" and only restocks when has produced a units/tech. i.e. game isn't guaranteed stalemated since said building owner still has resources available.
Step 2) Make Island maps so they aren't truly islands, but rather are connected though blocked off by some well themed non-destructible or very hard to destruct doodad or terrain effect that disappears at say 45 minutes of the match. (Raised lava over low ground that submerges mebbe)
Would change the dynamics of island maps a bit to have the islands suddenly accessible at a set point in the game, but I think that'd just make for some more fun strategies. Ultralisk horde swarming out as the walls/lava comes down springs to mind :)
Could still get a terran jump a building over to an island and sit there till the 45 minute mark, but would decrease the frequency I'd imagine since they know you're going to get there eventually anyhow.
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