Need Blizzard feedback about hacking

[Nrcoolj]

I would appreciate a response from a blue on this. Everyone knows the problem, and it does not need to be discussed. I just want to know how Blizzard feels regarding the fact that there brand new beta is being ruined by this. This game is being ruined by this.

Your beta is being ruined, what are you going to do, and what are you going to tell the current legitimate players who have been waiting for this game to come out for over a decade.

If this problem cannot be addressed, me and my friends don't feel we can continue testing your beta because it is a waste of our and your time.

[Newcomplex]

Its 11 pm in Irvin bro. What do you think, they live in front of their computers?

[Crisischild]

Blizzards response to hacking is SC2 is going to be rather subtle. You won't notice it till the Dark Templars scythe is severing your spinal chord while you stare at your computer screen.

[Nephrahim]

Wow, that is the absolute more passive aggressive comment I've seen on the boards.

It's a beta. They're testing everything. Hell, maybe they're testing the anti-hacking software. If it's "Ruining" the game for you so much, don't play it. There are plenty of people that want to take your place.

That said, 95% of hacking is sore players being sore, so...

[Havoc]

I don't know the problem. What the *!!* is he talking about?

[Nephrahim]

To my knowledge, it's the same as any RTS, people !#@!@ing about Maphacking.

[Anon]

Why are you posting on both forums?

keep this in the suggestions forums,where you're already blaming everyone whos trying to respond to you for trolling.

[Willie]

I just ended up in a game where it seemed like someone was hacking/cheating... Me and my teammate took out his buddy mid-game, and we had just about the entire map monitored... somehow he manages to turtle in, outproduce both of us with higher tier units, AND bring his teammate back. He also had only his main base and one expansion, which he was sharing with his teammate since we took out that main base... Like whut?

Nothing I could do I guess. But I'm pretty sure we weren't doing SO bad that we couldn't take him out, yet somehow that game said otherwise.

Considering that most of the matches played now are ranked, it would seem like the matches are monitored in some if not indirect way (I don't mean staff at Blizzard are watching every game that's going on on millions of monitors haha)... Custom matches would make sense for more hackers to be prevalent cause they're not so competitive, but in ranked matches...

So. Ahem. I hope there's a more prominent solution later on to address hackings...

[Frozen]

I would appreciate a response from a blue on this. Everyone knows the problem, and it does not need to be discussed. I just want to know how Blizzard feels regarding the fact that there brand new beta is being ruined by this. This game is being ruined by this.

Your beta is being ruined, what are you going to do, and what are you going to tell the current legitimate players who have been waiting for this game to come out for over a decade.

If this problem cannot be addressed, me and my friends don't feel we can continue testing your beta because it is a waste of our and your time.

Blizzard probby already has a solution, but they won't tip their hand in beta, so something else can be brought out to get by them. They'll wait for the day 1 patch at launch to fix the current maphacks.

[Colrath]

If you actually are silly enough to think your opponent is hacking, there is always a replay to record and proove to us skeptics. I've carefully reviewed 90% of my games (75+) and have not seen any signs of foul play.

Am I just strange to admit defeat?

[Giller]

I have seen slight evidence of maphacking, but it was subtle enough (short game) that he could have just been lucky and attentive.

[Rks]

I would appreciate a response from a blue on this. Everyone knows the problem, and it does not need to be discussed. I just want to know how Blizzard feels regarding the fact that there brand new beta is being ruined by this. This game is being ruined by this.

Your beta is being ruined, what are you going to do, and what are you going to tell the current legitimate players who have been waiting for this game to come out for over a decade.

If this problem cannot be addressed, me and my friends don't feel we can continue testing your beta because it is a waste of our and your time.
First of all, How can you tell people are hacking? Give some proof,

[hermis]

First of all, How can you tell people are hacking? Give some proof,

I dont know if I have run in to any cheaters, but I do know that there are multiple map hacks and zoom hacks out there and have been downloaded thousands of times.. people are using these 3rd party cheats, and there are even videos of it on youtube.. it is very sad, I was hoping we could atelast play in beta with no map hack for a while.

I could link you the proof but that would just encourage other people to cheat so I wont, I really hope bliz can set up a system to ban these players.. as far as I can tell what they are doing requires them to modify certain game files.. meaning blizz could easily set up detection or fully block whats out there now - they can also help by changing how the game saves data on build orders and unit counts.

Private servers would be preferable but not gona happen, so we just have to hope blizz takes a firm (no warning, ban whole bnet account if hack is detected ) stance on cheating and sets up effective detection software.. theres no way to stop these hacks from existing the way the game is set up, but there should be effective ways to detect and ban these a holes.

[magister]

My understanding of how these things works means that it's virtually impossible to ever stop a map hack.

For those who do not understand, I'll try to explain.

During a matchup, your own computer is constantly being fed with data about all the other players. You can't see them, because the fog of war is enabled. But the data is on your computer. You are continually updated about everything the other people are doing. All the map hack does is sniff it out and let you see it.

The only way I think they could ever stop it would be if games were run totally server side. Where your client doesn't even physically know the location of other buildings and units, unless the server determines you should be able to see them via line of sight. You'd start out only seeing your own stuff. And the server would have to monitor your activity constantly.. and when you actually were in legit line of sight of something, THEN it would allow your client to have the data.

I believe this technique has been employed in some FPS games to avoid wall hacking and so forth. The problem is, it means the main Blizzard servers have to handle all the details of the game. They have to continually monitor and run all games, constantly checking line of sight on what players should or should not be able to see, before allowing that data to get to their computer.

This is highly impracticle and unlikely to happen.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. And please do so with some civility.

[Deezus]

My understanding of how these things works means that it's virtually impossible to ever stop a map hack.

For those who do not understand, I'll try to explain.

During a matchup, your own computer is constantly being fed with data about all the other players. You can't see them, because the fog of war is enabled. But the data is on your computer. You are continually updated about everything the other people are doing. All the map hack does is sniff it out and let you see it.

The only way I think they could ever stop it would be if games were run totally server side. Where your client doesn't even physically know the location of other buildings and units, unless the server determines you should be able to see them via line of sight. You'd start out only seeing your own stuff. And the server would have to monitor your activity constantly.. and when you actually were in legit line of sight of something, THEN it would allow your client to have the data.

I believe this technique has been employed in some FPS games to avoid wall hacking and so forth. The problem is, it means the main Blizzard servers have to handle all the details of the game. They have to continually monitor and run all games, constantly checking line of sight on what players should or should not be able to see, before allowing that data to get to their computer.

This is highly impracticle and unlikely to happen.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. And please do so with some civility.

That pretty much sums up exactly what I was going to say, and if your right, on the scale battle.net will be handling when the game releases, handling all of that information server side seems like a daunting task.

[Rks]

I dont know if I have run in to any cheaters, but I do know that there are multiple map hacks and zoom hacks out there and have been downloaded thousands of times.. people are using these 3rd party cheats, and there are even videos of it on youtube.. it is very sad, I was hoping we could atelast play in beta with no map hack for a while.



AFAIK , Sc2 uses Warden, a hacking detection that run while you playing, same as WoW which very effected. And what does it do? It doesn't stop people from using the hack but dectects it, so why risking get your account banned . It take time for Blizzard to update Warden to detect new hack, no need to worry.

[Billnye]

a friend of mine used a maphack in starcraft I once against me.

I still beat him.

bad players are still bad.

[Rks]

a friend of mine used a maphack in starcraft I once against me.

I still beat him.

bad players are still bad.

Hopfuly when his account get banned, he won't cry out loud at Blizzard for new account :).

[Eloderung]

My understanding of how these things works means that it's virtually impossible to ever stop a map hack.

HoN has more people playing its beta than SC2 does, and for several more months, and there still has yet to be a maphack released for it. Or any other functional hack.

[magister]

That may well be. But you didn't get to the meat of what I had to say, which was to breakdown why it's impossible to stop, overall. You just give me an anecdote of a game that hasn't yet been hacked.

If you really believe it's possible to make something that is 100% hack proof, I think you are kidding yourself. Maybe HoN has a radically different internal system than SC2 does, and it's taking longer people to figure it out. Plus, there is probably a hell of a lot more incentive to hack SC2 than HoN.

As long as we are all just peer to peer with each other (I hope that is the correct terminology), it'll always be possible to find a way to sniff out the data. That's simply a fact. The only recourse is that Blizzard makes their warden able to detect said hacks, and then does key bans in waves. But there are always periods of time where the new maphack comes along, and perhaps months go by before it get's handled for by Warden and stopped again.

It's also easy to detect when people do stupid things they should not be able to do. Like selecting an enemy unit or building that SHOULD be under fog of war. That's a big giveaway right there. Exposes you fully.

[Artem]

HoN has more people playing its beta than SC2 does, and for several more months, and there still has yet to be a maphack released for it. Or any other functional hack.

HoN hosts the games server-side.

Right now they may have more players (their beta has been running longer), but at release? No way. We're probably talking an order of magnitude difference.

What may be practical for HoN probably isn't practical for SC2.

[magister]

HoN has more people playing its beta than SC2 does, and for several more months, and there still has yet to be a maphack released for it. Or any other functional hack.


Someone posted a link which proved this to be completely wrong. But the post got deleted. So I assume they don't want that disussed here. I will refrain from further comments that get into details and specifics that may help people.

[Toridas]

HoN has more people playing its beta than SC2 does, and for several more months, and there still has yet to be a maphack released for it. Or any other functional hack.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/619/honhacks.jpg

[Toridas]

Someone posted a link which proved this to be completely wrong. But the post got deleted. So I assume they don't want that disussed here. I will refrain from further comments that get into details and specifics that may help people.

that was me, I changed my mind about posting the actual site because I don't want to advertise hacking sites, unlike elerodung, half of whose posts mention a pirate servers and speed hacks for warcraft3

[Eloderung]

HoN hosts the games server-side.

Right now they may have more players (their beta has been running longer), but at release? No way. We're probably talking an order of magnitude difference.

What may be practical for HoN probably isn't practical for SC2.

Blizzard hosted every single Diablo II game, and they still do to this day.

S2 only charges $30 per game client, and they'll be hosting each and every game.

SC2 will be charging $60 (x3 games, or $40 for the latter two games, depending on what it'll be). And they have WoW financing them. Considering how many benefits you get from hosting games server-side, blizzard really should consider switching over to the HoN system.

Then again, I wouldn't really want SC2 sucking more funds away from further WoW development, with how the game is in its current state.

that was me, I changed my mind about posting the actual site because I don't want to advertise hacking sites, unlike elerodung, half of whose posts mention a pirate servers and speed hacks for warcraft3

1. Eligibility. Your eligibility to participate in this StarCraft® II Beta Test is subject to the following conditions: (i) You must have registered a Battle.net® account which is in good standing (the “Account”;); (ii) you must be an adult in your country of residence;

Careful with your posts; you're exposing yourself.

[Gemini]

If Blizzard wants sc2 to succeed in a competitive environment then they will be very harsh against hackers, costing them $50+ if they are caught.

Hacks are good now, because that way Blizzard can find them, and then catch them for when retail comes out.

You can't stop hacking, but you can slow it down if it's just not cost effective.

[magister]

Blizzard hosted every single Diablo II game, and they still do to this day.


You've just demonstrated that you do not fully understand what is being discussed.

We are not speaking about having a central server though which players connect. It would also require said server running all of the game mechanics for itself, with every client being nothing more than a dumb terminal of sorts.

I do not supporting hacking at all. I don't like to even talk about it. But I understand how it works, and I hate to see people putting forth things when they don't fully understand. And you clearly do not.

[Rackdude]

Yes, fog of war is applied in some kind of event handler. It really isn't difficult for people to get rid of this. However, it's pretty simple to write a program that checks for memory changes. They need to implement this and not just have Warden wait 6 months to do something about it.

[Coldvoltage]

The only videos I see on youtube of people maphacking is them playing against computer AI using a cracked version of the beta (meaning they do NOT have access to bnet, but only to single player). I doubt that there is a working maphack for bnet. I've never been suspicious of anyone I've played.

[Sam]

Blizzard hosted every single Diablo II game, and they still do to this day.


ZOMG REALLY? Just like how they "host" all of Warcraft 3, Starcraft 1 and Warcraft 2?

I don't think you know what you're talking about. Battle.net serves as a central hub to find other games, but (other than WoW) Blizzard hosts none of those game servers. It's all peer to peer.

[Kranden]

Of course 99% of the people you accuse of having maphack because he kicked your butt most likely don't. Cheating in a beta is only hurting yourself honestly, blizzard will take care of hacks in this game, give it some time its a beta.

[Wingless]

Your game wasn't map hacked until you provide a replay showing it. 95% of people who think they were hacked weren't. Every time I think my opponent was I check the replay and boom he caught a peak from a unit passing by or an observer I did not catch.

Put up or shut up on this. Also blizzard is doing what they usually do the warden will be updated to watch for it or the game will be altered to take care of it.

The thing they aren't doing is reading butt hurt threads from people who lost and couldn't identify a map hacked game if their life depended on it.

[Mut]

If you actually are silly enough to think your opponent is hacking, there is always a replay to record and proove to us skeptics. I've carefully reviewed 90% of my games (75+) and have not seen any signs of foul play.

Am I just strange to admit defeat?


You're not alone, my first thought is that i always played poorer than my opponent, I've reviewed replays to confirm my belief, and have yet to find anyone i thought was using hacks.

I have been accused of hacking a few times though, and its usually because i stumbled upon a proxy pylon, you know, when you put it in the path form my base to a xel'naga tower, how the hell could i possibly happen upon that without hacking!

i really don't think the problem is as pervasive as people claim it to be, and i'd bet a huge percentage of people crying about hacks just can't handle being beaten by people.

[Fors]

BUT WHERE IS THE PROOF?

[Eloderung]

ZOMG REALLY? Just like how they "host" all of Warcraft 3, Starcraft 1 and Warcraft 2?

I don't think you know what you're talking about. Battle.net serves as a central hub to find other games, but (other than WoW) Blizzard hosts none of those game servers. It's all peer to peer.



No, Blizzard does not host WarIII, SC1, War2, or SC2.

Yes, Blizzard does host Diablo II games.

It's really easy to test this for yourself.

1) Make a Diablo II games. Make it private, and do not allow anyone else to join.
2) Keep the game open five minutes, to prevent the game from ceasing to exist when all players are gone.
3) Leave the game, and completely sever your internet connection.
4) Have a friend join that same private game four minutes later. Note that your friend joined the game exactly how you left it; it was still running while you were completely offline.

Whoah, blizzard figured out how to allow people host games while offline? That's incredible!