Not your "run of the mill" roach bash

[Usbank]

But they honestly should be more than 1 supply.

Honestly, 145 hp? 2 armor, 16 damage normal speed atttack?

I don't think the unit is overpowered at all, I just think it needs to cost more than a marine's worth of supply.

[Moorehouse]

But they honestly should be more than 1 supply.

Honestly, 145 hp? 2 armor, 16 damage normal speed atttack?

I don't think the unit is overpowered at all, I just think it needs to cost more than a marine's worth of supply.

I actually have to agree on this. A marauders is 2(3?) and that is roaches counter I believe. While most counters are half the units supply count, I'm not saying that a marauders need to be lowered, they are strong enough. It's just I believe roaches need to be raised, gives it a amount of evenness

[Shawabti]

Oh wow I didn't realize they are only 1 supply... yea, 2 seems more reasonable.

[Usbank]

I actually have to agree on this. A marauders is 2(3?) and that is roaches counter I believe. While most counters are half the units supply count, I'm not saying that a marauders need to be lowered, they are strong enough. It's just I believe roaches need to be raised, gives it a amount of evenness

Marauder 100min/25gas 2 supply
Roach 50min/25gas 1 supply

Marauders seem balanced to their supply cost to me, too. The trouble lies in the en masse roach.

[Jopte]

Oh wow I didn't realize they are only 1 supply... yea, 2 seems more reasonable.

Yeah, with an early expand they can mass very fast since they don't have to pay for extra overlords.

[Usbank]

Yeah, with an early expand they can mass very fast since they don't have to pay for extra overlords.

What do they need an early expand for when they're only 25 gas apiece and have a queen poppin out larva babies like crazy? It's not like they're that gas intensive to need a 2nd base.

[Zimno]

Either their damage needs to be toned down or they need a higher cost, 16 base damage is pretty high for a unit that can be mass produced 6 minutes into a game. Their stats in general just strike me as a late game unit with that amount of health/regen, attack, and being armored. By the time a Zerg has about a dozen+ Roaches in my face I only have like 3 Immortals, or maybe a handful of Marauders.

[Draemos]

But they honestly should be more than 1 supply.

Honestly, 145 hp? 2 armor, 16 damage normal speed atttack?

I don't think the unit is overpowered at all, I just think it needs to cost more than a marine's worth of supply.

Wow, I didn't realize they were only 1 supply. Yeah that's pretty silly, they should definitely be two.

[Shinosai]

What do they need an early expand for when they're only 25 gas apiece and have a queen poppin out larva babies like crazy? It's not like they're that gas intensive to need a 2nd base.

They don't need an early expand, but having one can literally double the amount of roaches you can pump out.

[Cmmdrkeph]

I have to agree with this. The main problem I have with the roach is not how strong it is but how quickly other races can be overwhelmed by the massive black wave of wtfpwn that is roaches. Every unit has one or two of several qualities going for it. Marines are cheap and fast, but pretty weak. Zealots are strong and fairly fast, but are expensive. Zerglings are basically melee versions of marines that spawn 2 at a time. Tier 1 overall seems pretty well balanced. The problem is Tier 1.5.

Stalkers are, frankly, a f@#$ing joke. Marauders are excellent compliments to marines, but are more expensive and can't match the roach in numbers. Zerg can only counter the roach with other roaches or try to live long enough to go mutas. It seems like every time I see a zerg player I think: "well, sh1t. Now I had better rush the crap out of him or go straight for air, because I know what he's going to do."

It's because Roaches have too many of the afore-mentioned qualities that they are so deserving of the Nerf-Nuke. They're fast, they're cheap. they're tough, they're strong. The only thing to kill them with is air, and then they can just burrow and run.

I sincerely hope that Blizzard uses the next patch to put this obnoxious thing in its place, rather than further beating on the red-headed stepchild that the mothership seems to have become.

[Kindread]

Marauder 100min/25gas 2 supply
Roach 50min/25gas 1 supply

Marauders seem balanced to their supply cost to me, too. The trouble lies in the en masse roach.

75 min/25 gas per Roach.

A good Terran or Protoss can counter Roach rushes and most of these people love for Zerg to try because it's usually an automatic win for them. I can see a valid argument for something to be tweaked, but 2 supply would make Roaches more a situational unit. It would be a joke to counter and worthless for a Zerg to mass early game.

[Bibdy]

I was actually surprised when I read this. I never checked, and figured they costed 2 food, based on how effective Stalkers are against them. But, apparently its 2 Roaches to every Stalker. To that I say "what the fuck, mate?"

[Silver]

Wow. They're honestly 1 supply? I always assumed they were 2 supply as well. Move 'em up to two supply and they'll be fine, IMO.

[Frose]

sure, just bring down hydra supply to 1.

[Silver]

Originally posted by Frose.ftan

sure, just bring down hydra supply to 1.

Hydras are far better than they used to be, so no. They're fine at 2 supply.

Zerg gets to have a big army; not an army that's undercosted in supply.

[Wingless]

You make roach 2 supply you screw the zerg early game. The reason blizz didn't touch the roach in patch one is its going to take a bit more finesse then that to fix it.

to be honest i wouldn't mind having the old hydra back you don't know how many games Ive lost cause a turtleing toss or terran rushed air when I wasn't scouting enough.

[Silver]

Originally posted by Wingless.snubs

You make roach 2 supply you screw the zerg early game. The reason blizz didn't touch the roach in patch one is its going to take a bit more finesse then that to fix it.

to be honest i wouldn't mind having the old hydra back you don't know how many games Ive lost cause a turtleing toss or terran rushed air when I wasn't scouting enough.

I would support returning the Hydralisk to tier 1 and putting the Roach at tier 2.

[Wingless]

Originally posted by Silver.raptor

I would support returning the Hydralisk to tier 1 and putting the Roach at tier 2.

Hmmm old hydras back to tier one let roaches attack air and make them 2 supply. They pretty much become a more fun better hydra I like this.

[Audio]

well i don't play roaches against terran very often at all. it's pretty pointless and gets countered by M&Ms too easy... Stalkers might need a buff more then roaches need a nerf... I think people are just lazy though, it's possible to tech to immortals, and if you hold off the intial rush not much longer and you can get collosus... which will destroy pretty much any land unit the zerg can make coupled with a few other units of course. Your answer to mutas is just well placed cannons and a nice counter attack with some stalkers/collossus.

[Syriann]

quit picking on the zergs you noob .. i lose even with 5 roaches out by 4 mins into the game so you obviously dont know what those guys know

dont cry nerf because you're bad.

[Pwn]

Roaches dont need a nerf... if anything toss needs a group nerf TOSS > Zerg easily try counters and maybe you guys wouldnt qq about nerfing anything also TVZ Terran can own zerg fast as hell

[Retrovirus]

they have 140 hp and 13 damage i believe, not 145 and 16.

[Bibdy]

they have 140 hp and 13 damage i believe, not 145 and 16.

Definitely 145 health and 16 damage.

[Acosnil]

I find it odd that I have the easiest time playing, and winning as the zerg. I don't really know what to say but I'd point at either nerfing roaches or simply reworking them so there's less incentive to utterly spam them against other players.

[Nick]

Please do this so people will get lings also. Roaches don't need the nerf too much, but it does cap the retardation one can achieve.

[Kat]

It certainly doesn't make sense for the roach to cost only 1 supply.

As for it hindering the zerg early-game? I don't buy that... Zealots take up 2 supply, and toss still can maintain a very solid early-game.

Roaches, as they stand now, aren't reasonable. They have good attack, good defense, excellent micro potential and take up less supply than a zealot. Something needs to change.

I'm 100% in favor of blizzard increasing the supply cost of roaches to 2. I think it is a subtle and fair mechanism of balance.

[Dirkydu]

Roach rushes are balanced by the fact that they suck down all of your Vespene Gas. Every time I see one I do a little jig because while those roaches will be a pain in the ass for a little while, when it comes to later game I'm only going to see a wave of 5-6 Mutes instead of the 10-15+ that would have destroyed my base.

[Essentia]

OMFG THEY ARE 1 SUPPLY???

WOW ALL THE ZERG PLAYERS WERE TRYING TO KEEP THIS A SECRET HUH???? WOW NERF PL0X!!

[Outofranch]

16x3 = 48
50x1 = 50

[Phyzx]

Roach rushes are balanced by the fact that they suck down all of your Vespene Gas. Every time I see one I do a little jig because while those roaches will be a pain in the ass for a little while, when it comes to later game I'm only going to see a wave of 5-6 Mutes instead of the 10-15+ that would have destroyed my base.
lol, 25 gas per roach doesnt really suck down your vespene gas, and if you add some lings to your roach mass to counter the immortals, the protoss cant even attack your base until you get colosus, by which time, they will get mutas.

[BeL]

lol, 25 gas per roach doesnt really suck down your vespene gas, and if you add some lings to your roach mass to counter the immortals, the protoss cant even attack your base until you get colosus, by which time, they will get mutas.


AND IF THE ZERG GET MUTAS PROTOSS WILL GET.. oh wait....

[Frozen]

Roaches dont need a nerf... if anything toss needs a group nerf TOSS > Zerg easily try counters and maybe you guys wouldnt qq about nerfing anything also TVZ Terran can own zerg fast as hell

QFT

Protoss been a bit too favored imo
Terrans M&M rape zerg... Only thing ya can do is expand fast, get some towers up, mass lings, and try to get to mutas before the Medivac drops start.

[Attica]

QFT

Protoss been a bit too favored imo
Terrans M&M rape zerg... Only thing ya can do is expand fast, get some towers up, mass lings, and try to get to mutas before the Medivac drops start.

Or just get some banelings and win.

[Usbank]

Roaches dont need a nerf... if anything toss needs a group nerf TOSS > Zerg easily try counters and maybe you guys wouldnt qq about nerfing anything also TVZ Terran can own zerg fast as hell

Name one other unit that has the roaches stats and only takes up one supply space.

I've already said they don't need a nerf to their hp, damage, armor, etc.

What they do need is a supply equivalent to the quality of the unit.

1 roach =\= 2 lings
1 roach =\= 1 rine
you get the picture

[Kralic]

I play mostly Zerg now, and I might have used roaches 3 times. The quicker I use the gas on getting out of tier 1 the better off I am for the long course of the game. Roach rush rarely ='s a win if your opponent is decent. Best thing I ever did was to a terra who's scv was in my base while i was teching to mutalisks is, build a roach warren while it was there pop it with 2 lings cancel warren and upgrade lair and go to mutalisks, he was kinda pissed when his 10 marauders were countering nothing.