Choke Points SLOW the Game Down

[shurafa]

Way to much...

Once a player is setup behind there choke it is extremely difficult to attack if you are evenly matched. Even if you are slightly ahead you cant press the advantage because the choke point is so strong...


I am finding my best chance to win is to out macro the other player and let them come to me....

[Lorenz]

nuclear launch detected

[Lghtningwolf]

battlecruiser operational

[Lazz]

grwrwaararaaaarrrwwaaaaaaaaaaa

[Lghtningwolf]

grwrwaararaaaarrrwwaaaaaaaaaaa

wtf? we were quoteing the game, nowthing says grwrwaararaaaarrrwwaaaaaaaaaaa lol.

But to be serious this time: choke points do Slow down the game, THATS the point. they are designed so Zerg are not super powers that can rush in with 3 lings and kill a supply line to win every game in 7 minutes

[Kodiak]

grwrwaararaaaarrrwwaaaaaaaaaaa

total win

[Kindlin]

grwrwaararaaaarrrwwaaaaaaaaaaaqft

[Azureflames]

wtf? we were quoteing the game, nowthing says grwrwaararaaaarrrwwaaaaaaaaaaa lol.

Ultralisk?

[Sodamuffin]

wtf? we were quoteing the game, nowthing says grwrwaararaaaarrrwwaaaaaaaaaaa lol.

Nydus bro.

[Shawabti]

OK BABY

THOR HERE

[Crisischild]

*dwoo-oooo boop*

(Reaver sound)

[Bloodypom]

CARRIER HAS ARRIVED.

[Huma]

SCV READY!

[Crisischild]

SCV READY!

Noob get out of here. SCVs can't break choke points.

[Lghtningwolf]

*dwoo-oooo boop*

(Reaver sound)]

The unit you are trying to create does not exist (anymore)

READY TO ROLL OUT!

[Bloodypom]

]

The unit you are trying to create does not exist (anymore)

READY TO ROLL OUT!

Editor. Classic units.

Trust me, there'll be Custom Melee maps with the original units added back in.

[Lghtningwolf]

Editor. Classic units.

Trust me, there'll be Custom Melee maps with the original units added back in.

oh probably, still doesnt effect the ladder or beta though... yet.

I HOPE they have ALL the classic units in the editor, I want to remake the SC1 campaigns

[Crisischild]

]

The unit you are trying to create does not exist (anymore)

READY TO ROLL OUT!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msSvZPZXwJU

[Lghtningwolf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msSvZPZXwJU

wtf? rofl!

[Bloodypom]

oh probably, still doesnt effect the ladder or beta though... yet.

I HOPE they have ALL the classic units in the editor, I want to remake the SC1 campaigns

I'm willing to bet money Mutalisks have an animation to turn into a cocoon, just for Guardians and Devourers.

[shurafa]

Banelings are really the only lower tier unit I can think of that you can break a choke point with. Seige Tanks come early enough so Terans have an early Tier 2 option.

I would like to see an option for Protoss in Tier 1/2 that they can use to break choke points with.

[Primoris]

yes lets come up with new units and ways to counter OP terrans.

[Wizbeski]

In the pipe, five by five.

[Nevermore]

I'll do a real response to this.
I think choke points are meant to slow down the game, but it is both a blessing and a curse.
You say you find it easier to wall up and wait for people to come to you, and you are certainly not the only person who thinks that way.

Many Terrans try that, and as soon as they do, I respond quickly. Oh I certainly will come to you, but I will be ready.
Above all, I expand. Twice if possible. If you wall in, you are less likely to make that difficult for me. If you wall in, it gives you limited resources, and limited income. Plus, it allows me to freely watch all the expansions. Now you cannot expand. Now I don't need to come get you, you need to get out, and I wont let you.

[Toridas]

wtf? we were quoteing the game, nowthing says grwrwaararaaaarrrwwaaaaaaaaaaa lol.



nothing says "battlecruiser operational" either.

[Rks]

I'm here . Click me

[Fohobogah]

Walling in do not make it hard to xpand :/

PS: Air break walling in very nicely. Vicking economy arass FTW!

[Chaosdragoon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msSvZPZXwJU

LOL!!

[Nevermore]

Walling in do not make it hard to xpand :/



I'll assume English is not your first language.
Who are you referring to?
If I wall in, my opponent can expand easily, because I won't come out.

If you are referring to the one who is walling in then in the most technical sense, you are correct, it is not hard to expand. But if you do wall in, then a smart opponent will make expanding difficult by keeping you contained, and holding map control. In order to expand, you need to leave your wall.

I will take an example from a game I played yesterday. Mr. Walling Terran had Tanks, and Marines and Marauders behind his wall, 2 bunkers and missile turrets lining his base. I expanded to the gold minerals and my natural. I had more than triple his income, so i was producing units far faster. Observers patrolling around his base made it impossible to leave without me knowing. He built a Command Center in his base, and flew it towards his natural. Every time he tried to land, i sent just a few Immortals and Stalkers to shoot it from range, forcing it to lift off. I never went in range of his tanks. He eventually ran out of resources, forcing him to make a push to try and expand. He lost.

[Orion]

Terran walling in at a choke point is not the same thing as turtling.

The problem is that to an early game rush the only real chance terran player has is to have walled in. Two marines behind a supply depot and a rax can hold off 6 zerglings before they break through. Two marines standing in the open are going to get surrounded and eaten alive.

A walled in terran can expand and fight an expansion with almost the same speed as a non-walled in terran. They should have the same number of marines and marauders. Just lower the SD and head on out.

This is completely different from a turtling player (which you are describing) that builds 100 missile turrets and bunkers before even considering an offensive strategy.

The real problem remains though. Without chokes every strat against terrans would be a hyper-early zealot or zergling rush. And those strats would be successful a vast majority of the time. But a solution isn't easy. The early unit for the terran is the marine. Do we want to buff early marines so they can hold off a zealot rush without a choke? What would that mean to a protoss player who is rushed by marines?

[Nevermore]

Terran walling in at a choke point is not the same thing as turtling.



I see what you mean. I was describing an extreme situation, which is turtling for sure. But (dependent on the map) a Terran who expands, leaves his wall, and that can open his expansion to attack (assuming he is fighting a competent opponent). Most maps don't allow you to wall off your choke at an expansion as easily.
The choke point at your main is very strong. Expanding makes your defense weaker 9 times out of 10.

[Evil]

There are so many ways to back door/warp/jump/drop in this game.... Static defense is really weak right now IMO and it seems like 90% of games are decided by an early 7-12 unit *rush* that goes straight for your harvesters/town hall and unless your static def is right next to your minerals, its completely useless.

Sure static defense slows down the game but honestly i think it doesn't slow it down nearly enough. This game should be a chess match of offense and defense not a "the best defense is a strong offense" where if your not starting to amass an offensive army 4-5 minutes in your probably gunna lose.

[Michael]

Choke points shouldn't be a solution to balance the races. If zerg could win every situation in which a map didn't have a choke point then it's obviously the races are imbalance.

[shurafa]

Choke points shouldn't be a solution to balance the races. If zerg could win every situation in which a map didn't have a choke point then it's obviously the races are imbalance.


This is a good point.

Map Balance is a HUGE part of the game... I understand this however in its current state I think Blizzard will be forced to make EVERY MAP a Choke point map...

[shurafa]

I'll do a real response to this.
I think choke points are meant to slow down the game, but it is both a blessing and a curse.
You say you find it easier to wall up and wait for people to come to you, and you are certainly not the only person who thinks that way.

Many Terrans try that, and as soon as they do, I respond quickly. Oh I certainly will come to you, but I will be ready.
Above all, I expand. Twice if possible. If you wall in, you are less likely to make that difficult for me. If you wall in, it gives you limited resources, and limited income. Plus, it allows me to freely watch all the expansions. Now you cannot expand. Now I don't need to come get you, you need to get out, and I wont let you.



The idea is wall up... Build up... Move your force and wall up your expo...

Turtle style like SC TVP Pre Broodwar... Remember trying to crack those Terran defenses back in the day?

ITs a similar feeling because of all the choke points on every map...