On Terran, and Caring Too Much

[Kinaesthesia]

As we speak, I'm Nexus-less, with one probe and 70 minerals. I have a few gateways, but obviously I can not use them. This isn't a problem because I destroyed my opponents entire base with zealots and stalkers, finished off the couple Reapers that were attacking my base, but missed his Command Center, which flew off before I even arrived at his base. At the moment I have enough units to cover all Xel'Naga points and all mineral fields including my base.

It's been 30 minutes. A game that should easily be mine is now wasting my time, and my opponent is quite likely jacking off somewhere.

I know there has been a thread on such a deadlock with some Terran building hovering in some obscure abyss. This thread is more directed toward the motivations of such a unsportsmanlike player. I'm low in Silver League. Furthermore, this is Beta. My opponent is likely not a very high ranker; I was even favored. So why, oh why, does he care so much?

I suppose it doesn't bother me too much because I'm taking the time to catch up on homework, but people such as this disgust me.

[Humongus]

the fact that you posted this means he got what he wanted.

[Zacd]

Buy another probe, shouldn't take that long to get air.

[Kinaesthesia]

Buy another probe, shouldn't take that long to get air.

No nexus.

[Mut]

Buy another probe, shouldn't take that long to get air.

he said he has no nexus...

[Kollapse]

Just a suggestion, food for thought if you will:

What would be the negative impact of requiring Terran players to have a -grounded- Command Center in order to avoid being revealed? They will still be unique in possessing mobile structures, but a Command Center would no longer be able to stay hidden in a land-less corner.

I could be misunderstanding your problem. Even if you could see the Command Center, maybe you can't kill, I'm not sure.

[Deviant]

Just a suggestion, food for thought if you will:

What would be the negative impact of requiring Terran players to have a -grounded- Command Center in order to avoid being revealed? They will still be unique in possessing mobile structures, but a Command Center would no longer be able to stay hidden in a land-less corner.

I could be misunderstanding your problem. Even if you could see the Command Center, maybe you can't kill, I'm not sure.

Then the Terran could land on an island and the same problem has arisen.

[Kinaesthesia]

I could be misunderstanding your problem. Even if you could see the Command Center, maybe you can't kill, I'm not sure.

This is indeed the case.

However your suggestion would be a good first step toward eliminating these kinds of games.

edit:
Also this.


Then the Terran could land on an island and the same problem has arisen.
Hadn't thought of that.

[Kollapse]

Yea, I misunderstood you.

Carry on.

EDIT: Right, he could still land somewhere far and unreachable but at least he's visible. It wouldn't alleviate your issue, maybe just make Terran players less likely to lift off and run away when things go from bad to worse. Not that all Terran do this, just a small percentage.

It's a tough situation.

[Kinaesthesia]

By the way, shoutout to Volak. You're pathetic.

He just tried landing his center, and when I alt-tabbed back in I saw him, got a couple hits in on it, broke some of his SCVs and destroyed a refinery. The stalemate goes on.

[Shinosai]

Suggestion I heard yesterday: If for 5 minutes no resources are gathered, and there is no activity, it is an automatic draw.

I don't think the terran player deserves to lose because he made the strategic decision to kill all your probes and your nexus, preventing you from getting air to catch him. But you don't deserve to lose either, as you clearly have the unit advantage. Therefore, it should be a draw.

[Blackened]

i think i saw a post about games like this a few days ago and someone suggested adding a timer for how long you can be idle and not actively doing anything or something along those lines, but even then that could be exploited by some @#!*%!@ 12 year old. There isn't really a clear cut solution to this problem other then waiting it out really...

[Kinaesthesia]

Suggestion I heard yesterday: If for 5 minutes no resources are gathered, and there is no activity, it is an automatic draw.

I don't think the terran player deserves to lose because he made the strategic decision to kill all your probes and your nexus, preventing you from getting air to catch him. But you don't deserve to lose either, as you clearly have the unit advantage. Therefore, it should be a draw.

I would most definitely take a draw. For me it's not about the win, it's about proving a player with the audacity to do such a thing wrong.

[Metaphysic]

As we speak, I'm Nexus-less, with one probe and 70 minerals. I have a few gateways, but obviously I can not use them. This isn't a problem because I destroyed my opponents entire base with zealots and stalkers, finished off the couple Reapers that were attacking my base, but missed his Command Center, which flew off before I even arrived at his base. At the moment I have enough units to cover all Xel'Naga points and all mineral fields including my base.

It's been 30 minutes. A game that should easily be mine is now wasting my time, and my opponent is quite likely jacking off somewhere.

I know there has been a thread on such a deadlock with some Terran building hovering in some obscure abyss. This thread is more directed toward the motivations of such a unsportsmanlike player. I'm low in Silver League. Furthermore, this is Beta. My opponent is likely not a very high ranker; I was even favored. So why, oh why, does he care so much?

I suppose it doesn't bother me too much because I'm taking the time to catch up on homework, but people such as this disgust me.
So... you're complaining that your opponent cares too much about his ranking to leave the game while you also care too much about your ranking to leave?

[Kinaesthesia]

So... you're complaining that your opponent cares too much about his ranking to leave the game while you also care too much about your ranking to leave?

False. Rather I hate losing in a battle of morals. Exaggeration, of course, but as I stated earlier, I don't care much about the actual win/loss.

Troll less.

[Nick]

Still going? Used report abusive player?

If not I'll go in and add him to friends and report.

[Kinaesthesia]

Still going? Used report abusive player?

If not I'll go in and add him to friends and report.

Nah, actually I cornered him to a certain portion of the map (Blistering Sands, so it was fairly small) and got his center down to about half health before he apologized and left. If you're reading this bud, it's alright, and if you feel the urge to do it again do it on someone other than me ;) Plus, thanks for conceding.

[Nick]

You're thanking him now? WTF

[Kinaesthesia]

You're thanking him now? WTF

Sorry for seeming bipolar? It was a joking thanks, seeing as my mood was lightened from his fairly respectful concession.

Thanks for the concern though.

[Ozo]

Lol yea why would you start thanking him now? Sure he finally left so you could get the win but I mean come on thats really lame. If all you have is some random floating building (No units or buildings on the ground) maybe they should ad like a 30sec - 60 sec countdown timer that if you dont land something you lose.

[Kinaesthesia]

Lol yea why would you start thanking him now? Sure he finally left so you could get the win but I mean come on thats really lame. If all you have is some random floating building (No units or buildings on the ground) maybe they should ad like a 30sec - 60 sec countdown timer that if you dont land something you lose.

Decent suggestion, but only if the timer only went down when you had no grounded buildings, else it could render takeoff pretty much useless.

[Nick]

Land command center, lift off command center, timer reset. As long as there's some sort of mechanic to prevent this I'll be happy.

[engineer]

I actually think it's really interesting how many of these stalemate posts I've seen. It seems like many TvP games end in base trades, where both player's bases are almost completely destroyed.

What is it about the game that makes this happen? I guess the general weakness of buildings and the mobility of armies is the cause.

[Kinaesthesia]

Land command center, lift off command center, timer reset. As long as there's some sort of mechanic to prevent this I'll be happy.

Yeah, I was thinking of something like a 120 second timer, and however many seconds you keep grounded replenishes the timer by that much.

[Ozo]

Land command center, lift off command center, timer reset. As long as there's some sort of mechanic to prevent this I'll be happy.

Make it so the timer doesn't reset, rather resumes counting down from where it was?
I dont know this might screw with certain situations as a terran player. Even if the timer were to reset upon landing at least they would have to land somwhere.

[Kinaesthesia]

I actually think it's really interesting how many of these stalemate posts I've seen. It seems like many TvP games end in base trades, where both player's bases are almost completely destroyed.

What is it about the game that makes this happen? I guess the general weakness of buildings and the mobility of armies is the cause.

I'm guessing the inherent rush-heavy quality of SC2, plus the fast pace and gravity added by the ladder system.

[Endureth]

As we speak, I'm Nexus-less, with one probe and 70 minerals. I have a few gateways, but obviously I can not use them. This isn't a problem because I destroyed my opponents entire base with zealots and stalkers, finished off the couple Reapers that were attacking my base, but missed his Command Center, which flew off before I even arrived at his base. At the moment I have enough units to cover all Xel'Naga points and all mineral fields including my base.

It's been 30 minutes. A game that should easily be mine is now wasting my time, and my opponent is quite likely jacking off somewhere.

I know there has been a thread on such a deadlock with some Terran building hovering in some obscure abyss. This thread is more directed toward the motivations of such a unsportsmanlike player. I'm low in Silver League. Furthermore, this is Beta. My opponent is likely not a very high ranker; I was even favored. So why, oh why, does he care so much?

I suppose it doesn't bother me too much because I'm taking the time to catch up on homework, but people such as this disgust me.

I don't sympathize with you. He's trying to win the match just as much as you are and for him, if that means he's gotta play hide and seek with his last building until you give up, well he's willing to hold out and see if you fold.

[Aryxymaraki]

In general, if your two armies 'pass in the night' as it were, you can't get your own army back into your base in time to save yourself from being crippled anyway.

So you have nothing to lose by going all-in and trying to take out his base before yours goes down. Your army is already out of play as far as base defense goes.

[Aknazer]

Honestly I don't see the issue with what he did. Had you slipped up and let him build a bit then he could have won. It would have depended on how many resources he had left and if he was able to get a foothold somewhere. It isn't much different than on island maps of SC1 where you didn't have the ability to get to the enemy's last island (or raised plateau) and he couldn't kill you. And I expect that to be a bit more common with more maps unless they design ALL of their maps with land paths to every single buildable area.

At most games where you can't kill each other should end in a draw, but then the issue becomes how do you determine if you can't kill each other.

[Yaz]

I actually think it's really interesting how many of these stalemate posts I've seen. It seems like many TvP games end in base trades, where both player's bases are almost completely destroyed.

What is it about the game that makes this happen? I guess the general weakness of buildings and the mobility of armies is the cause.

Mostly happens because people are quite bad these days and rely on very basic strategies of make an army and throw it at opponent most times rather than a more cautious approach of advancing forward while guarding one's own territory. This makes it fairly common that one player may be defenseless with the other in their base and if the other happened to see it coming and made a unit to go around their force (such as reapers in this case) then it results in these stalemates.

[Messana]

Buy another probe, shouldn't take that long to get air.

Thanks for not reading the very, very first sentence in his post. Grats.

[Krios]

Honestly I don't see the issue with what he did. Had you slipped up and let him build a bit then he could have won. It would have depended on how many resources he had left and if he was able to get a foothold somewhere. It isn't much different than on island maps of SC1 where you didn't have the ability to get to the enemy's last island (or raised plateau) and he couldn't kill you. And I expect that to be a bit more common with more maps unless they design ALL of their maps with land paths to every single buildable area.

At most games where you can't kill each other should end in a draw, but then the issue becomes how do you determine if you can't kill each other.

I too do not see the issue.
Look at it this way. If you went AFK he would have been able to build back up and kill you. If he went AFK you can't do anything.
Who is in the better position?

Now, if he had just a flying barracks and no minerals, then yes, hiding would (in my opinion) have been poor sportsmanship.

[Yaji]

If he was crafty, he should be finding a good spot to land out of your reach and gather some resources.. Build a barracks, fly away... go somewhere else, gather some resources, build a factory, fly away..

Just sitting there sucks, but I've managed to win some games by flying off and being forgotten..

[Joey]

So why do you deserve the win more than him?

He killed your main base you failed to kill his, why don't you leave?

I don't see how this is Bad Mannered, he used an ability he clearly has at his disposal and is using it accordingly.

[Mut]

Suggestion I heard yesterday: If for 5 minutes no resources are gathered, and there is no activity, it is an automatic draw.

I don't think the terran player deserves to lose because he made the strategic decision to kill all your probes and your nexus, preventing you from getting air to catch him. But you don't deserve to lose either, as you clearly have the unit advantage. Therefore, it should be a draw.

This is not a good solution, this game is not a draw. This game is a terran that lost, who is using a useful mechanic to circumvent the end of game mechanics.

A true draw is something like neither player having a single unit/money left but each having cannons left over that under no circumstances could be killed. All these "draws" are just sore little kids that can't handle being beaten in a game.

[Noisetank]

From what I am hearing, he was trying to build back up.

You were alt-tabbing to post on the forums. If he had built up and defeated you, I feel he should be awarded two wins.

[Tehschoolbus]

These threads are more annoying now than "xyz is OP" threads. At least those I can read to get some ideas for good counters I hadn't thought of. Seriously, this issue has been discussed SO MUCH by now. I think it's even been posted in the bug report. You probably didn't know that though, so don't take this personally.

I myself proposed that draw mechanics be added into the game. Like if there is no economy going on for either player and there is no combat going on, have a game counter that's 5minutes. If there is combat, the counter is reset, otherwise the counter ticks down and at 0:00 the game is counted as a draw.

This is not a good solution, this game is not a draw. This game is a terran that lost, who is using a useful mechanic to circumvent the end of game mechanics.

A true draw is something like neither player having a single unit/money left but each having cannons left over that under no circumstances could be killed. All these "draws" are just sore little kids that can't handle being beaten in a game.
In chess when both players have inadequate pieces to accomplish the player's one and only objective (getting the king) then what do we have? A stalemate. Stalemate is a fancy word for draw. If you can't defeat him, and he cannot defeat you, then you have not won and he has not won. The game is not a win just because you have more armymen then he has. The game is only a win if you completely eradicate the other player or the other player concedes.

[Yaji]

In regards to calling it a draw, can you ally with each other and end it in a draw?

If neither of you can win at this point (granted, for the love of god, i would hope it's over by now), just ally up and call it a stalemate.

Otherwise, yeah, just let him win and move on.. It's a game..

[Noxman]

How about this, you leave. Clearly he has escaped death by screwing you so hard you cannot recover to finish him off.
if the map had no boundaries he would be many galaxies away by now.