How does terran beat zerg?

[Nuclear]

I am top 5 silver league player, so i play gold zergs constantly. My question is, how does terran beat a DECENT zerg? No matter what I do, I always lose to this race. Nothing works. MMM + tanks = !!@%d by ling roach hydra. M+M rush to kill their FE = !!@%d by roach ling/baneling then they get ling roach hydra and im boned cus the decent player wont let me expand. Mutas/corruptors/broodlords or ultras = autowin when microed vs a terran in lategame, also if they do ling roach hydra infestor its even more painful. I have tried tech to nukes, banshees, viking harass, NOTHING WORKS. I am getting boned early, mid, and lategame by this race. And if i somehow manage to gain map-control in any of these stages of the game, they just come back with a larger army and wipe me out in 3 seconds.


(Maybe Ravens w/ seeker missiles? But then again if i tech to that I wont have the gas for enough marauders to counter a roach/ ling rush.)

[Shinosai]

Right now because terran mech is in the garbage can, the best way I've found to fight zerg is to quad rax + an engineering bay.Two tech labs, two reactors, pump marauders and marines and go with an all out attack at around 8-9 minutes.

You can afford 4 barracks in 1 base if you use all your energy on mules.

[Nuclear]

Right now because terran mech is in the garbage can, the best way I've found to fight zerg is to quad rax + an engineering bay.Two tech labs, two reactors, pump marauders and marines and go with an all out attack at around 8-9 minutes.

You can afford 4 barracks in 1 base if you use all your energy on mules.

What if he goes banelings?

[Ogrer]

spread the *#%# out

[Shinosai]

What if he goes banelings?

Out microing them is about the only way. If your army is bigger than his then you may be able to shoot down the banelings before they get there.

Honestly banelings give me the most trouble, but, I find if I put my marines behind my marauders most bad zerg players who don't know how to do anything except a click will blow them up on the marauders.

[Nuclear]

Out microing them is about the only way. If your army is bigger than his then you may be able to shoot down the banelings before they get there.

Honestly banelings give me the most trouble, but, I find if I put my marines behind my marauders most bad zerg players who don't know how to do anything except a click will blow them up on the marauders.

And no Medivacs? Btw shin i watched you like every day on finals stream before i got into beta XD

EDIT: Also, what if he gets burrow and hides the banelings? Since i am spamming mules ill only have enough for one scan maybe : /

[Shinosai]

And no Medivacs? Btw shin i watched you like every day on finals stream before i got into beta XD

Honestly, not really a big fan of medivacs vs zerg. I prefer to end the game long before medivacs and stim packs come into play.

[Nuclear]

Honestly, not really a big fan of medivacs vs zerg. I prefer to end the game long before medivacs and stim packs come into play.

Hmm well ok ty for the info. I am just going to guess and say no shields on rines either. I will try this next game I play see how it turns out.

[Dagger]

EDIT: Also, what if he gets burrow and hides the banelings? Since i am spamming mules ill only have enough for one scan maybe : /

Spread out and pray

[Frozen]

I am top 5 silver league player, so i play gold zergs constantly. My question is, how does terran beat a DECENT zerg? No matter what I do, I always lose to this race. Nothing works. MMM + tanks = !!@%d by ling roach hydra. M+M rush to kill their FE = !!@%d by roach ling/baneling then they get ling roach hydra and im boned cus the decent player wont let me expand. Mutas/corruptors/broodlords or ultras = autowin when microed vs a terran in lategame, also if they do ling roach hydra infestor its even more painful. I have tried tech to nukes, banshees, viking harass, NOTHING WORKS. I am getting boned early, mid, and lategame by this race. And if i somehow manage to gain map-control in any of these stages of the game, they just come back with a larger army and wipe me out in 3 seconds.


(Maybe Ravens w/ seeker missiles? But then again if i tech to that I wont have the gas for enough marauders to counter a roach/ ling rush.)

Wow, your a baddie. MM beats roaches, if you lose to them, you're fail. and terran answer to FE is Bunkers at their expansion. MMM+tanks DESTROYS Roaches and Hydras. Severely. Hell, Marines + tanks beats Roach Hydra. Roaches always end up in the front and tanks 3 shot them in normal mode.

[Nuclear]

Wow, your a baddie. MM beats roaches, if you lose to them, you're fail. and terran answer to FE is Bunkers at their expansion. MMM+tanks DESTROYS Roaches and Hydras. Severely. Hell, Marines + tanks beats Roach Hydra. Roaches always end up in the front and tanks 3 shot them in normal mode.

Thats why I said LING/roach and LING/roach/hydra. I asked about competent players who know how to use zerglings, not about a bunch of retards who just mass Hydra/roach and think they will win. L2Read and gtfo the post pls...damn udumb

GL bunkers at FE w/ lings + creep tumors...you must play some nu!!@# zerg honestly.

[Zlefin]

have you tried making sure you can get at least on expansion? on most (though not all) maps, you can either put your wall-in to cover your expansion as wella s the main, or there's an island area. Either way you could put up your own fast expansion and have it be reasonably safe, either via the wallin or the being on an island.

[Nuclear]

have you tried making sure you can get at least on expansion? on most (though not all) maps, you can either put your wall-in to cover your expansion as wella s the main, or there's an island area. Either way you could put up your own fast expansion and have it be reasonably safe, either via the wallin or the being on an island.

I have tried this and smart zerg wont let me do it. They just attack and kill me since I am behind on production or they nydus worm the island when thats up..

[Requisition]

Honestly, not really a big fan of medivacs vs zerg. I prefer to end the game long before medivacs and stim packs come into play.

Before stim packs even? I usually build up a for and don't strike until stim packs are ready. They are so useful in nearly all situations.

[Stuff]

Realistically, by not letting him get to mutalisks.

..or if he gets there.. get to Ravens first and work on baiting him into clustering his mutas for a few well-placed Seekers.

Aside from this.. you don't.

[Nuclear]

Before stim packs even? I usually build up a for and don't strike until stim packs are ready. They are so useful in nearly all situations.

I can see how stimpacks can be your downfall if they have banelings and you dont have the proper amount of medivacs

[Nuclear]

Realistically, by not letting him get to mutalisks.

..or if he gets there.. get to Ravens first and work on baiting him into clustering his mutas for a few well-placed Seekers.

Aside from this.. you don't.

Havent had problems with mutas really because I can see the tech and cripple him in some way. Even if he does get like 6-8 out an equivalent amount of vikings will put up a good fight until your marines are there. Ive never really been in a situation with MASSED mutas, probably because it is very expensive and I / opponent can usually end it before then.

[Stuff]

Havent had problems with mutas really because I can see the tech and cripple him in some way. Even if he does get like 6-8 out an equivalent amount of vikings will put up a good fight until your marines are there. Ive never really been in a situation with MASSED mutas, probably because it is very expensive and I / opponent can usually end it before then.

What you describe falls under not letting him get mutalisks.

If you let a zerg player get to mutalisks unabated - aka not under constant, withering pressure - he will very quickly reach critical mass.

Once he gets past a dozen mutas, he essentially has map control due to nothing you have being capable of catching his mutas. They can hit and run as they please, and instantly retreat from any engagement that might result in them dying.

Basically from the get-go in TvZ as T you have 2 objectives:

Contain
Crush

If he gets an expo out that you don't find, you're in deep @!#*. If you can't crush him economically before he can get a decent force of mutalisks, you're in deep @!#*.

Like I said. Constant, withering pressure. Or you lose by the 15 minute mark at the latest.

You have to keep his gas production kneecapped to cripple his muta, baneling or hydra output. Vikings aren't bad at this, as they can swat a few overlords to try and get him pop-blocked(which is brutal to zerg) as well to cap a decent harassment run.

You must maintain constant watch over every expansion point you've ever seen him even glance at. In fact.. just every expansion point period.

Think of it this way: Does he have a Nydus Network? If the answer is yes, he can expand ANYWHERE.

[Nuclear]

What you describe falls under not letting him get mutalisks.

If you let a zerg player get to mutalisks unabated - aka not under constant, withering pressure - he will very quickly reach critical mass.

Once he gets past a dozen mutas, he essentially has map control due to nothing you have being capable of catching his mutas. They can hit and run as they please, and instantly retreat from any engagement that might result in them dying.

Basically from the get-go in TvZ as T you have 2 objectives:

Contain
Crush

If he gets an expo out that you don't find, you're in deep @!#*. If you can't crush him economically before he can get a decent force of mutalisks, you're in deep @!#*.

Like I said. Constant, withering pressure. Or you lose by the 15 minute mark at the latest.

Agreed. If I constantly pressure him he will have no choice but to pass on mutas and get the other uncounterable units : /

Also I patrol scout every 1.5 minutes with scout scv.

[Stuff]

Agreed. If I constantly pressure him he will have no choice but to pass on mutas and get the other uncounterable units : /

You can at least force other units to fight you head on, and they typically aren't nearly as frustratingly unstoppable at harassment as Mutalisks are.

If you force him to pass on mutas and opt for something else to fight back, consider the game basically already in the bag.

Mutas are just too fast to catch or keep up with, and the amount of static D you'd have to invest in at every expo point to make them zerg-proof is cost prohibitive, even with Salvage.

[Nuclear]

You can at least force other units to fight you head on, and they typically aren't nearly as frustratingly unstoppable at harassment as Mutalisks are.

If you force him to pass on mutas and opt for something else to fight back, consider the game basically already in the bag.

Mutas are just too fast to catch or keep up with, and the amount of static D you'd have to invest in at every expo point to make them zerg-proof is cost prohibitive, even with Salvage.

Thats the problem though. Even if he doesnt get mutas the game is not in the bag because ling roach hydra OWNS mmm+ tanks >.>

I havent tried shins tactics of early attack w/ massed MM yet, but it seems sound.

[Stuff]

Thats the problem though. Even if he doesnt get mutas the game is not in the bag because ling roach hydra OWNS mmm+ tanks >.>

I havent tried shins tactics of early attack w/ massed MM yet, but it seems sound.

If he's going ling/roach/hydra throw some hellions in with your MMM. Tanks are good for the siege push (SCAN BEFORE YOU ADVANCE), but not so good against really any zerg ground. Heavy Metal ain't what it used to be :(

Hellions on the other hand, absolutely melt Zerglings. Ideally you'll want your Marines in back, hellions in the middle, marauders up front. Make sure you set your hellions to a separate control group and micro them to ONLY hit the lings. Splash will make short work of them. And get the upgrade at the tech lab, watching 8-10 lings explode in a single flame volley from 6 hellions makes Raptor Jesus smile.

Tanks against a decent zerg that's ling/roach/hydra are artillery. Just make sure you aren't shelling your marauders. Keep them close enough that they're dropping hurt on the Hydra/Roach ball. The hellions can handle the Lings.

I've also heard assault mode VIkings can actually stand toe to toe with Hydras and produce decent results, but I have yet to have occasion to test this theory first-hand. Vikings may make a decent alternative to marines if it gets into mid-late game. they may not share upgrades, but if he has access to Banelings your Vikings will survive whatever gets through the Hellions.

[Nuclear]

If he's going ling/roach/hydra throw some hellions in with your MMM. Tanks are good for the siege push (SCAN BEFORE YOU ADVANCE), but not so good against really any zerg ground. Heavy Metal ain't what it used to be :(

Hellions on the other hand, absolutely melt Zerglings. Ideally you'll want your Marines in back, hellions in the middle, marauders up front. Make sure you set your hellions to a separate control group and micro them to ONLY hit the lings. Splash will make short work of them. And get the upgrade at the tech lab, watching 8-10 lings explode in a single flame volley from 6 hellions makes Raptor Jesus smile.

Tanks against a decent zerg that's ling/roach/hydra are artillery. Just make sure you aren't shelling your marauders. Keep them close enough that they're dropping hurt on the Hydra/Roach ball. The hellions can handle the Lings.

I've also heard assault mode VIkings can actually stand toe to toe with Hydras and produce decent results, but I have yet to have occasion to test this theory first-hand. Vikings may make a decent alternative to marines if it gets into mid-late game. they may not share upgrades, but if he has access to Banelings your Vikings will survive whatever gets through the Hellions.


Hmm that sounds like another viable option then. I tried hellions but never more than 3 and without the upgrade.

Also, Vikings do stand toe to toe with hydras. The problem is is that hydras are much cheaper than they are, so unless its very situational, you are still much better off going rines.

[Stuff]

it's true that hydras are cheaper, but Vikings can pull harassment duty when not in assault mode for a push. Vikings hunting Overlords or shutting down an expo's production before withdrawing basically makes them pay for themselves.

Vikings seem unwieldly and expensive.. but you can get a lot of mileage out of them. They're really a very versatile unit.

[Fwump]

Wow, your a baddie. if you lose to them, you're fail.Really? 2 horrible WoWisms in one post? Come on.

[Nuclear]

it's true that hydras are cheaper, but Vikings can pull harassment duty when not in assault mode for a push. Vikings hunting Overlords or shutting down an expo's production before withdrawing basically makes them pay for themselves.

Vikings seem unwieldly and expensive.. but you can get a lot of mileage out of them. They're really a very versatile unit.

Which is why I get them in every match-up that goes to end-game :D. Reactored vikings=super sex.... If only they looked/sounded more badass...

[Stuff]

Same.. I 'discovered' them fairly early on in a TvT, and put them to good use on a contain. Been a loving relationship ever since.

[Crazyterran]

The Viking Pilot is a bad ass.

Well, the only problem i have is that he looks like an ODST from Halo.

[Resistance]

As a Zerg player that regularly plays Terrans....... All you have to do is wall up the entrance to your base with 2 supply depots/1 barracks and rush build air units with keeping some marines and possibly a seige tank or 2 behind your wall. Basically, he cannot rush you at all doing that, even if he goes with a gigantic rush of banelings, he'll have wasted a lot of resources trying to break down that wall, which really gives you the advantage.

If he tries to rush you make sure you have your svc's on the ready to repair your wall buildings, that way he cannot take them down and break through at all. The ONLY way he will be able to effectively get around that wall is by building air units, and since you started out on that 1st, you should be able to beat him.

If it's a zerg player that starts going straight to mutalisks, then go for the marines/marauder rush. Basically you need to scout/scan him out to see what he's going to do.

soooo breakdown:
---------------------------------
1) Wall up entrance with 2 supply depots/1 barracks.

2) Scout/scan him out.

a) Either go for quick build of air units if it looks like he's going roaches/hydras/banelings.

b) or go for marines/maruader rush if he's going straight for mutalisks.

[Stuff]

This gives up map control, leading to your air units either being scouted and answered by Hydras or Mutas, or you being starved out due to the Zerg player controlling THE ENTIRE REST OF THE MAP.

[Mnijykmirl]

I actually believe the way to go is 1 rax double OC FE mech play. (15 OC, 15 CC, etc)
Bunker his natural if you see him FE. Simcity and bunker your natural expansion and don't let them get up the ramp with ling runby. 3 fact 1 starport, reactor Hellions, and techlab tank/Thor, 1 or 2 vikings for Overlord hunting and scouting, tech lab starport and pump ravens.
Double armory.
PDD ravens will hit hydra and muta pretty hard.
As always, watch for the greater spire so you can can reactor viking in time.

[Teste]

As a Zerg player that regularly plays Terrans....... All you have to do is wall up the entrance to your base with 2 supply depots/1 barracks and rush build air units with keeping some marines and possibly a seige tank or 2 behind your wall. Basically, he cannot rush you at all doing that, even if he goes with a gigantic rush of banelings, he'll have wasted a lot of resources trying to break down that wall, which really gives you the advantage.

If he tries to rush you make sure you have your svc's on the ready to repair your wall buildings, that way he cannot take them down and break through at all. The ONLY way he will be able to effectively get around that wall is by building air units, and since you started out on that 1st, you should be able to beat him.

If it's a zerg player that starts going straight to mutalisks, then go for the marines/marauder rush. Basically you need to scout/scan him out to see what he's going to do.

soooo breakdown:
---------------------------------
1) Wall up entrance with 2 supply depots/1 barracks.

2) Scout/scan him out.

a) Either go for quick build of air units if it looks like he's going roaches/hydras/banelings.

b) or go for marines/maruader rush if he's going straight for mutalisks.

Sorry but your advice is actually a bad idea overall. Zergs can have 10-12 roaches at your door by the same time you have 2 banshees out fine, but before said banshees get in the zerg base he can already have enough hydralisks to kill them, and the Terran will have nothing to pressure the zerg on, which is GG for the terran.

Turtling will only win games for the Terran if for some bizarre reason the Zerg player doesn't want to build roaches or mutas. A couple dozen mutalisks is absolutely devastating and almost impossible to counter by terrans.

[Nick]

honestly I think the answer might be mech. You could try to end the game quickly like that other guy said, but speedlings are a #%@#%, especially on creep. Lings alone will beat MMM with the speed upgrade, and cost no gas (except the speed upgrade). Which is basically a free counter and/or FE. If you decide to wait it out, ling/hydra/baneling is going to beat any number of MMM. Hellions and tanks and marines might do the job. Hellions counter lings and hydra well (people have not been makign enough hellions. they're 100minerals and no gas.. you can make more than 4). Siege the tanks, focus on the hydra with them, unsiege them when the ligns are dead. Marines to counter the possible mutas, and to spend extra minerals, because after siege tanks, siege mode upgrade, and hellion upgrade, you'll probably be low on gas when it comes time to attack that FE.)

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the FE right away. Because like I said before, the lings will beat your ground force, and it probably wont provide much of an economic boon right away anyway. Unless he's going to focus everything early on on making drones, in which case you could rush him and not worry too much about the speedlings. Always be scouting of course.

I'm somewhere in the top 10 in my plat division, if that means anything to you.

EDIT: also, you could screw around with getting fast banshees to harass his workers, but it's kind of risky because spores aren't all that difficult to get.

[Shinosai]

I actually believe the way to go is 1 rax double OC FE mech play. (15 OC, 15 CC, etc)
Bunker his natural if you see him FE. Simcity and bunker your natural expansion and don't let them get up the ramp with ling runby. 3 fact 1 starport, reactor Hellions, and techlab tank/Thor, 1 or 2 vikings for Overlord hunting and scouting, tech lab starport and pump ravens.
Double armory.
PDD ravens will hit hydra and muta pretty hard.
As always, watch for the greater spire so you can can reactor viking in time.

Bunkering the natural only works versus the zerg players that build a hatchery before a pool. I mean, yea, I beat a lot of platinum zerg that FE with a bunker, but it's only because they're too inexperienced to know they're doing the wrong build.

[Nick]

oh ya and ravens are awesome

[Shinosai]

Honestly it's my opinion that the zerg vs terran matchup is incredibly skewed, moreso on big maps, but even in small maps zerg has the advantage. A good zerg player will always be able to match a terrans units WHILE fast expoing, and their expos will always saturate faster than a terrans, and they will always be able to defend their expos better because of their speed.

Wait for the mech buff, imo. Reminds me of war3 of any race vs night elf, night elf could always fast expand and other races had to try and beat them with half the resources.

Really, the answer to this question is: Terran beats zerg by rushing them or outplaying them.

[Mnijykmirl]

Bunkering the natural only works versus the zerg players that build a hatchery before a pool. I mean, yea, I beat a lot of platinum zerg that FE with a bunker, but it's only because they're too inexperienced to know they're doing the wrong build.

It's not to kill the hatchery. It's to make him spend all that damn larva on something besides drones. I've found that games where that's attempted gets me better timings later on down the line because things don't get saturated as quickly.

[Riken]

hunter seeker missle > mutas

[Shinosai]

hunter seeker missle > mutas

Not really. Seeker missiles are incredibly easy to dodge since they move slowly. Even hydralisks, one of the slowest units in the zerg army, can outrun a seeker missile.

[Themanofwick]

Here's what I like doing:

Against early roaches:

Go with a 1 Refinery, 2 Rax (1 with X, 1 with C) and pump out marines and marauders. Then, super, super early (like zerg early), bunker by your natural expo and build a CC (i like to float it over so that he has less warning as to what i'm going - only 10 seconds as apposed to the entire build time.) Your expo will come a bit later than his, but 1-2 bunkers will keep it safe against his roaches.

Against early banelings:

Go with 2 relatively early refineries and no fast expand. Pump out MnM and get a super, super early stimpack. Between the slowing missiles and increased attack and movement speed, banelings shouldn't touch you. If you're sure that was his entire army, push. If you think he has a little more, but not much expand to the high yields. If you think he has a decent ammount more units expand to a nearby and easily dependable expo.

[Nick]

Not really. Seeker missiles are incredibly easy to dodge since they move slowly. Even hydralisks, one of the slowest units in the zerg army, can outrun a seeker missile.
depending on the number of mutas, and the exact situation at hand, it's worth it to send your ravens AT the mutas and cast it right on them. 2 missiles would do it, and 4 mutas would equal gas cost, and cost more mineral. they could start reproducing them faster than you would your ravens, though; so it's more worth it if there's ~10+ mutas clumped up.