Promoted: Copper -> Bronze

[Jaerin]

Got promoted after a defeat. -2 points, and now I am in Bronze League.

It appears promotions happen after a certain set of criteria are met, and are not based on a time-of-day or day-of-week.

Screenshot: http://i42.tinypic.com/25gdsf8.jpg

Re-rankings are happening after meeting whatever criteria blizzard has set forth. I am 29 wins, 42 losses. It wasn't even a nice round number like 50 or 100 games, lol. 71 games total.

I was usually Copper position 30, however, I have been playing all afternoon. Couple wins, couple losses, but I climbed up from 30 to 6th place. Had a few 2v2 random victories in 6th place Copper. Now i am 9th place Bronze.

/shrug

[Snippitydurf]

Looks like youre gonna have to change your sig. :P

I do wish they would shed some light on this? I forget, but did anyone ask a question related to this in the developer chat?

[Jaerin]

Looks like youre gonna have to change your sig. :P

lol, I suppose so :p


I do wish they would shed some light on this? I forget, but did anyone ask a question related to this in the developer chat?

Dunno, the twitter one? I didn't catch it.

[Terrorvision]

I looked at your screenshot. Interestingly, since you only lost 2 pts my assumption is that you played against some people from a higher league that were vastly favored against your team.

The match lasted 37 minutes which I assume is an indication that you were able to hold your own against them. If for whatever reason they were silver and you were copper, I could see the system taking the fact you lasted 37mins against silver players as an indication you're good enough for bronze league. Who knows though.

Personally I'm trapped in bronze when I know I can beat silver and gold players. I'm not saying I'd whoop them or anything but I think I belong in silver at least. I'd like a way to redo my placement matches.

Also, in the dev chat they said they were going to release more information soon in a big FAQ about the placement and matchmaker or something along those lines. Well, soon might be an exaggeration I think they said mid-April, which is apparently when everything is going to happen in this beta according to that dev chat.

[Snippitydurf]

Originally posted by Terrorvision.thirteen

I looked at your screenshot. Interestingly, since you only lost 2 pts my assumption is that you played against some people from a higher league that were vastly favored against your team.

The match lasted 37 minutes which I assume is an indication that you were able to hold your own against them. If for whatever reason they were silver and you were copper, I could see the system taking the fact you lasted 37mins against silver players as an indication you're good enough for bronze league. Who knows though.

Personally I'm trapped in bronze when I know I can beat silver and gold players. I'm not saying I'd whoop them or anything but I think I belong in silver at least. I'd like a way to redo my placement matches.

Also, in the dev chat they said they were going to release more information soon in a big FAQ about the placement and matchmaker or something along those lines. Well, soon might be an exaggeration I think they said mid-April, which is apparently when everything is going to happen in this beta according to that dev chat.

That would make since, in the battle.net interview, they said they've made a "learning" computer, which would explain the weird demontions/promotions and since its based for speed, not even matching.

Also, super excited for "midapril" finally be able to play on my mac :D

[Fldsjflsdjfa]

So you went from Copper 6th to Bronze 9th in one game? WTFuzz!

[Aphrodite]

EVERY single one of my promotions have been on a loss, and demotions have all been on a win. I dont know if this is intentional. I went from


1v1 Gold>1v1 Copper(switched races) on a win
then 1v1 Copper>1v1 Bronze(back to terran) on a loss
then 1v1 Bronze>1v1Gold(still terran) on a loss.


Now i went from 2v2 Copper to 2v2 Platinum(this is a rather huge jump) on a loss where my teammate and i were *CRUSHED* by a "slightly favored" opponent.


There has to be some other factor here

edit: oh, me and my two's partner just got promoted bronze#1(1770 rating) to gold #9 on a 2v1 loss because we were like "lol one guy left easymode lets have some fun with battlecrusiers"

[Terrorvision]

EVERY single one of my promotions have been on a loss, and demotions have all been on a win. I dont know if this is intentional. I went from


1v1 Gold>1v1 Copper(switched races) on a win
then 1v1 Copper>1v1 Bronze(back to terran) on a loss
then 1v1 Bronze>1v1Gold(still terran) on a loss.


Now i went from 2v2 Copper to 2v2 Platinum(this is a rather huge jump) on a loss where my teammate and i were *CRUSHED* by a "slightly favored" opponent.


There has to be some other factor here

edit: oh, me and my two's partner just got promoted bronze#1(1770 rating) to gold #9 on a 2v1 loss because we were like "lol one guy left easymode lets have some fun with battlecrusiers"

I'd love to see replays of these matches. Is it possible it depends on some factor of how you're playing the race? APM? You switched races - maybe you played the new race with less perceived skill by the system? How far apart were these matches in time? Were you promoted and demoted several times in one day or was this over a few weeks?

I'd really love to know what the system is looking for. I moved from copper to bronze after a winning streak so I had originally assumed that it took winning.

[Neuro]

i've done 5 placement matches and won every single one. this kinda scares me, as i know i'm not that good. i'm bad at micro, and keybinds are slowly coming along for me. my wins were always against players who don't expand. i find a lot of people only building 8 gatherers for their first mineral field too. hopefully it doesn't put me in silver or gold.

[Aphrodite]

Nuero, keep playing, I'd be interested where you place. I'm pretty sure its not W/L based but WHO you play and what your score is.

[Aphrodite]

I'd love to see replays of these matches. Is it possible it depends on some factor of how you're playing the race? APM? You switched races - maybe you played the new race with less perceived skill by the system? How far apart were these matches in time? Were you promoted and demoted several times in one day or was this over a few weeks?

I'd really love to know what the system is looking for. I moved from copper to bronze after a winning streak so I had originally assumed that it took winning.

ill get my replay of my most recent 2v1 loss up there where we went from bronze #1(1770 rating) to gold #9 in just a few here.

[chris]

Nuero, keep playing, I'd be interested where you place. I'm pretty sure its not W/L based but WHO you play and what your score is.

Yeah W/L doesn't matter it matters when you win games that you aren't favored in or vice versa.

[Aphrodite]

Here's the replay, 2v1, lost, was promoted bronze#1>gold#9


www.jinxed-guild.com/SC2Replays/2010-03-14 18-37-33.SC2Replay

[Amber]

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/915/kingturdofcrapisland.jpg

YALL DON'T KNOW ABOUT MY COPPER

P.S. I keep thinking Blizzard is just trolling me by not being able to leave this league (even though I suck, but not copper suck I don't think)

[Gemini]

They might do promotions in waves to ease the server load. So you play a whole bunch, get to a certain point. You lose, but then the wave comes, and you get promoted cause you were doing well before the loss.

[Aphrodite]

They might do promotions in waves to ease the server load. So you play a whole bunch, get to a certain point. You lose, but then the wave comes, and you get promoted cause you were doing well before the loss.


I doubt this. I have been promoted at 2am, 5pm, 10pm, all different times of the day, all RIGHT after a game, its never like i've logged in and changed leagues. I get the


"Reassignment"

Your performance has reclassified you as blah blah blah


as you can see i have almost 200 games under my belt I've been promoted/demoted probably 10 times total.

EVERY TIME

Promote after a loss

Demote after a win.

[Colrath]

My first 30 games were like 75% loose. Now I'm at like 75% win, but I can't get out of my league.

Yesterday I was like 12-2, mostly against people favored against me. I guess those two games make a big difference when I was the one favored. :(

I wish I was pitted against favored opponents 100% of the time.

[Gemini]

I doubt this. I have been promoted at 2am, 5pm, 10pm, all different times of the day, all RIGHT after a game, its never like i've logged in and changed leagues. I get the


"Reassignment"

Your performance has reclassified you as blah blah blah


as you can see i have almost 200 games under my belt I've been promoted/demoted probably 10 times total.

EVERY TIME

Promote after a loss

Demote after a win.

I don't see how that counters the wave argument. It could just be after so many games played, with points shifting, they promote/demote people.

[Broloc]

I got demoted from platinum 2v2 after a win, and we were not favored. suxorz.

[Aphrodite]

Because it just doesn't make sense. There has to be a certain set of hidden criteria that puts you in a certain league. For instance,


I play with 3people in 2v2. 2 People from my WoW Guild(fleetadmiral.hotshift, Zeratul.somethingorother) and Joey.rumz.


My placement games with Zeratul were my first games EVER in starcraft2, and maybe his 5-6th, we had no idea what to do, went 4-6 and was placed in bronze accordingly. We played on and off, going about 50/50. then I get my friend joey to so some 2's with me.

We go 9-1 and get ranked 2v2 Platinum, at this point our scores/general APM were about the same, so i was like "Wow pretty cool we're PLATINUM IN BETA BABY", and we're about 50/50 at our current ranking, where you'd expect to be playing similarly matched opponents.

Now, My buddy Fleetadmiral.hotshift is like HEY MAN DO SOME 2's WITH ME, So i do, I say fine i'll play some games with you.

My strategy consists of an ACTUAL strategy, his consists of being protoss/terran, using static defense and teching till his has 90 battlecruisers while i'm harassing/fighting the opposition. Many games i had nearly wiped out BOTH of the other team before he decided to send his forces in. Now, While our scores were VERY similar( i mean, he tech'd to crusiers, or carriers, while i had M3, tanks/banshee harass late game) I'd edge him out by about 20k, for 40 minute long game, its not that much.

We also go 9-1, and I'm like "jeeze anyone can rank platinum now" and we get put in a low ranking 2v2 bronze.

There's something definably different about how these rankings work, and i think in blizzard style it wont be revealed at all, or it is unfinished and throwing people places randomly.

[Havoc]

My theory is that once you go on a winning streak, say as Copper, it starts putting you against higher and higher people. Let's say you beat a bunch of Bronze players; it'll then put you up against Silver. If you go on a losing streak against those silver players, but beat the bronze ones, it logically places you in the Bronze League.


Just my theory.

[Aphrodite]

That would be a rather good theory, except right now with so few people on bnet it is a rarity you are placed with anyone even NEAR your current standing. 90% of the time its either "Favored" or "Slightly Favored", from what i've seen favored means 2 leagues above and slightly favored means 1, I have seen "Teams even" once, ever. I didnt even know the bar existed until like four nights ago.

[Havoc]

Well, it depends where you are. As a Copper player, I got put up against tons of Bronze. I beat all of them, then it started putting me up against Silver players. They wrecked me, and with a loss against silver I got notified I'd been promoted to Bronze.

[Azile]

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/915/kingturdofcrapisland.jpg

YALL DON'T KNOW ABOUT MY COPPER

P.S. I keep thinking Blizzard is just trolling me by not being able to leave this league (even though I suck, but not copper suck I don't think)

Your record is .500, according to the game's logic you belong right where you are. You don't deserve to be promoted until you can do better than par.

Where this all jumps the tracks is since this is beta and they have the match-making system set to 'find me any opponent fast' vs 'find me an opponent from my league only' you get to play bronze silver and gold players. If you were playing other coppers only then you'd be better than .500 and probably have been jumped up to at least bronze by now.

Want to be promoted in beta? Win a majority of your matches, regardless of who you're being matched against. It will promote you.

[Duderino]

There's definitely more to it than the number rating that determines your standing in the ladder or even your winning %. It probably has some similarities to the WoW arena ladders, where you have a actual rating and a match-making-rating. That MMR used to be completely hidden, which is seems they're doing in SC2 IMO.

I started out terribly (its been years since I've played SC1 or even War3) and went 1-9 in my placement games. I worked my way up the copper ladder for a couple of weeks. At one point, I hit a 10 game win streak, and since then my opponents were consistently in higher leagues. Mostly bronze and silver but I would even get a few gold opponents.

Eventually, I got to the top of division 5 copper, but there were 3 or 4 other players who were in close competition for the top. Points wise we were all very close and pushing 2000 rating. One thing that was strange, most of these guys had 50% win rates, but mine was always slightly below. (I've never been able to overcome that 1-9 placement record.) Yet, I was in equal standing for points.

Yesterday, I finally got promoted to Bronze. However, my competitors haven't been bumped up yet. I thought it a little strange that I got promoted before going above or at least reaching 50% wins, and that people with the same rating didn't go up at the same time. I think I was 2nd or 3rd on the ladder at the time.

The bronze division I placed in was brand new, and I think their mechanism for creating new division might also affect when/how people are promoted/demoted.

[Dreuel]

There's definitely more to it than the number rating that determines your standing in the ladder or even your winning %.

I suspect that rating alone determines your promotion -- the trick is, the "points" that you see on the ladder screen are not the same as your estimated skill rating, which is hidden.

The best evidence for this is that a typical platinum division ranges from point values of about 800 to about 2000, while a typical copper division ranges from about 800 to about 2000.

[Kookieslayer]

Well by what i understand of the system, you can change league for a LOT of reasons.

Simply having a better APM or better Macro can make you go up or down in the leagues. That's why people can actualy get demoted for winning and promoted after a loss. Even if you win 30 games in a row, if your apm is not good enought for let's say gold league, you wont get in gold ...

I realy hope some Blues will shed light on the ladder system soon because being stuck in bronze league is getting boring .... I was in silver and had a realy good time but got demoted for what ever reason. Now I play 3-4 games a day just to get back in top 10 and stop because the games are rarely close and entertaining :(

[Dreuel]

That's why people can actualy get demoted for winning and promoted after a loss. Even if you win 30 games in a row, if your apm is not good enought for let's say gold league, you wont get in gold ...

I'm willing to bet a week's pay that APM is in no way used to determine promotions.

Also, the simplest explanation is that it only evaluates you for a league change every 10, 20, 50 games or whatever, probably for system-load related issues we'd never see.

[Terrorvision]

I'm willing to bet a week's pay that APM is in no way used to determine promotions.

Also, the simplest explanation is that it only evaluates you for a league change every 10, 20, 50 games or whatever, probably for system-load related issues we'd never see.


I know, I'm going to play a game where I just spam the hell out of my hotkeys nonstop. My APM will be like 300 but I will most likely lose. Will report back with results.

[Dreuel]

My theory is that once you go on a winning streak, say as Copper, it starts putting you against higher and higher people. Let's say you beat a bunch of Bronze players; it'll then put you up against Silver. If you go on a losing streak against those silver players, but beat the bronze ones, it logically places you in the Bronze League.


Just my theory.

I think it's a good theory. I've noticed long streaks of getting paired with favored players, and when I lose to them a bunch, I end up back against the people more evenly matched with me.

[Terrorvision]

Okay I'm back. Results:

High APM? Check - 250APM
Victory against a higher ranked player? Check. I'm bronze, he's silver. I won, dunno how. But whatever.

Spamming hotkeys = good strategy? I went zealot rush, he was teching to mutas. He got them out right when I blew his hatchery up and he managed to recover. I made phoenixes and won.

Promotion? Nope. Nothing.

[Aphrodite]

Just an update here. I went from 84th in gold to 44th in gold today, beat a silver toss player(he mentioned it before the match) and then was DEMOTED to silver 55. Makes almost 0 sense to me. I would really like an explanation on how this works or at least a "its not finished" Demotion on a win seems.... catty!

[Nick]

hmm.. I was promoted to silver from a loss, and to platinum from a win. so it's not just losses that trigger promotion.

[Divine]

Blizzard claimed to have a learning system implemented for the ladder promotion and demotion but it seems from all the info above:

a. You are promoted/demoted after a game: This means not evalutaing at certain time and you don't get promoted/demoted while you're sleeping or chatting with your friends ("hey I just got demoted while talking to you" <= doesn't happen)

b. You can get promoted after a loss: As the OP was saying, it seems to have a criteria system where it evalutes you every 10 matches or after certain number of matches. This would explain if you were winning 9 times in a row, you lose one, it would make sense that you would get promoted after the loss.

It is also possible they incorporated rating system but seeing as how you get different amount of points for different opponents, they probably take in the difference in points (with every certain number of games) when looking to see if you need to be promoted. This could also explain some of the outcries earlier in the beta where some people were stuck at #1 positions and could probably be because their points weren't changing much and they may have fixed it by now.