Questions about premium maps.

[Crisischild]

Blizz never posts here but maybe some of you have answers. Don't know if there's a better place to post these or if there's and article that answered these questions.

1: What's Blizzards cut? How much of the 99 cents per map (or whatever it is) is Blizz going to keep for themselves?

2: Security on maps. What sort of security is going to be placed within premium maps to prevent someone for just throwing it up on piratebay for everyone to get?

3: Bnet rules. Is the whole "No crude language, no vulgar language, etc" going to be enforced in premium maps? I assume so but as a quick "comparison", Valve doesn't care what I put in my custom games.

4: Advertising in maps. Not that that's something I would ever do, you never know what companies like Apple will do.

5: Is there a royalties cap?

6: Copyright. I don't know much about American copyright laws and intellectual properties and all that, it vexes me greatly. Will the map belong to Blizzard? Will it belong to the creator? Who will own the premises of the map, the plot, the custom skins, textures, units, and sounds? Will Blizz have the right to "seize" the map and give the creator no royalties for it? Could someone sell theirmap through their own website and not through B-net? If someone wanted to write a book to go along with the maps plot or something would they have to give Blizz royalties and deal with their lawyers?

7: What if the game becomes hugely popular? Like, hundreds of thousands or millions sold (This is hypothetical people)? What then? What if the creator of said hugely popular map wanted to take it and make their own independent game out of it?

[Poolatka]

good questions, but i doubt we'll get a response here.

i'm sure they'll clarify when Galaxy is released.

[Adamu]

My concern about these maps is that so few people will purchase them that it will be tough to find any to actually play with you. The only way I could see this working is if they only did single player maps.

[Ghozt]

Blizz never posts here but maybe some of you have answers. Don't know if there's a better place to post these or if there's and article that answered these questions.

1: What's Blizzards cut? How much of the 99 cents per map (or whatever it is) is Blizz going to keep for themselves?

2: Security on maps. What sort of security is going to be placed within premium maps to prevent someone for just throwing it up on piratebay for everyone to get?

3: Bnet rules. Is the whole "No crude language, no vulgar language, etc" going to be enforced in premium maps? I assume so but as a quick "comparison", Valve doesn't care what I put in my custom games.

4: Advertising in maps. Not that that's something I would ever do, you never know what companies like Apple will do.

5: Is there a royalties cap?

6: Copyright. I don't know much about American copyright laws and intellectual properties and all that, it vexes me greatly. Will the map belong to Blizzard? Will it belong to the creator? Who will own the premises of the map, the plot, the custom skins, textures, units, and sounds? Will Blizz have the right to "seize" the map and give the creator no royalties for it? Could someone sell theirmap through their own website and not through B-net? If someone wanted to write a book to go along with the maps plot or something would they have to give Blizz royalties and deal with their lawyers?

7: What if the game becomes hugely popular? Like, hundreds of thousands or millions sold (This is hypothetical people)? What then? What if the creator of said hugely popular map wanted to take it and make their own independent game out of it?

A lot of questions there should have been answered a long time ago. Not so much for the galaxy editor, but for WC3 and SC1's map editors. For example - DotA, a game that is wildly popular in both B.net and other third party platforms is going to try and become it's own game via Valve. What I want to know is if Blizzard gave Icefrog (the current author of DotA) the go ahead or if anything we create with Blizzard's editors is owned by whoever creates it. The tools are just owned by Blizzard.

Really would like to see these answered, either way.

[Terrorvision]

I could see this going either way. From my end, I can't really see myself paying for a map. The maps in WC3 were abundant - and free. It would be interesting if there was an ad-supported method similar to applications in Facebook.

Of course it could be possible that people will pay for your map. Hmmm I have an idea for extra beer money!

[Zacd]

If I make a custom game with completely original units and spend months on it, would you buy it?

[Ghozt]

If I make a custom game with completely original units and spend months on it, would you buy it?



Depends if it's popular enough, if I have money to do so, or better yet a way to pay for it. And a lot more factors. The thing is, this premium map system is going to fail though. People will find a way to hack the maps and get them for free. You cant really re-create Apple's Appstore on a computer. People always find a way around anti-hack systems and the lot.

[Crisischild]

I could see this going either way. From my end, I can't really see myself paying for a map. The maps in WC3 were abundant - and free. It would be interesting if there was an ad-supported method similar to applications in Facebook.

Of course it could be possible that people will pay for your map. Hmmm I have an idea for extra beer money!

I think Premium maps are a great Idea but I myself can't think of a way to execute it ...Amazingly well. It's a good way to give programmers or just really creative people a little incentive to keep doing what they do.


I think if the maps were .50USD they would sell well. After all millions of people pay that much a DAY to play CoH and WoW and FFonline and all them. I could even see them going up to a dollar. Assuming the creator will still get to work on the map as he/she/they see fit and make "patches" that the people who have payed for the map will get for free. I'd like to try and make some premium maps. Like most people who took the IT course I want to create games that people play and make a bit of a profit or at least break even but I also realize working for a company like EA you make THEIR game on THEIR time how THEY want it.

So yeah just to reiterate, I think it's an amazing idea, I just don't know if Blizz can pull it off.

[Adamu]

Depends if it's popular enough, if I have money to do so, or better yet a way to pay for it. And a lot more factors. The thing is, this premium map system is going to fail though. People will find a way to hack the maps and get them for free. You cant really re-create Apple's Appstore on a computer. People always find a way around anti-hack systems and the lot.
Try to find the maps you've been playing in the beta on your computer... you can't. If premium maps are handled the same way the maps we've been playing have been it will all be handled remotely; meaning you won't have a way to download and hack them.

[Dreuel]

If you write a book, typical royalties are 10-15%. I wouldn't be surprised if the number were in that range somewhere, maybe a bit better.

[Thelegacy]

Try to find the maps you've been playing in the beta on your computer... you can't.

They are actually in your hidden user/appdata folder under cache. Not that hard to find.

[Kranden]

The only problem with this system is this.

Nobody is going to buy a map that nobody has ever played.

Therefore no map will become popular without it having been played by a large number of people. Imagine you see Defense of the Ancients pop up on Warcraft III for the very first time and they want to charge you a few dollars to buy the map, you have never played it and neither has anybody you know. Are you going to throw down a few dollars for a map that could be absolutely terrible? If people tried to charge for a map like DOTA right off the bat nobody would have ever played it and it wouldn't have become the popular map it is today.

[Crisischild]

The only problem with this system is this.

Nobody is going to buy a map that nobody has ever played.

Therefore no map will become popular without it having been played by a large number of people. Imagine you see Defense of the Ancients pop up on Warcraft III for the very first time and they want to charge you a few dollars to buy the map, you have never played it and neither has anybody you know. Are you going to throw down a few dollars for a map that could be absolutely terrible? If people tried to charge for a map like DOTA right off the bat nobody would have ever played it and it wouldn't have become the popular map it is today.

Public betas? "Demos"? Previews?
There are people making maps for Steam games and they're making money off of them, many don't offer anything but some screen shots or videos. SC2 shouldn't be too different unless Blizz gets all communist on everyone. I'm really hopeful for this but remaining realistically optimistic.

[Adamu]

They are actually in your hidden user/appdata folder under cache. Not that hard to find.
Just placing them in your cache doesn't allow them to show up in the beta client.

[Thelegacy]

No you just have to place them in the folder that corresponds to the first 2 digits/letters of the actual Blizzard map file name. The map files are like 10+ characters in alphanumeric.

[Smerbeck]

Public betas? "Demos"? Previews?
There are people making maps for Steam games and they're making money off of them, many don't offer anything but some screen shots or videos. SC2 shouldn't be too different unless Blizz gets all communist on everyone. I'm really hopeful for this but remaining realistically optimistic.

What in the hell are you talking about?

People who make money off TF2 maps/CS maps have RIGOROUS play testing that is involved.

I know this personally, have been playing competitive TF2 for over 2 years now and have seen the process in and out.

[honeybadger]

Blizzard makes so much money there's no way in hell I'm going to pay 99 cents for a map. They're going to sell millions of copies of SCII, so don't even begin to tell me they need the money to support the game, compounding the billions they bring in from WoW.

[Crisischild]

What in the hell are you talking about?

People who make money off TF2 maps/CS maps have RIGOROUS play testing that is involved.

I know this personally, have been playing competitive TF2 for over 2 years now and have seen the process in and out.


I really can't see what part of my post you're replying to. I never said custom maps for Steam games aren't tested, publicly or privately. I know personally some maps are only tested internally. I've also seen some open for public testing.

What the hell are you talking about?

[Jwray]

I think it will be really tough for any pay-maps to spread virally from player to player as people are hosting custom games. There will probably be shills hosting custom games of their own map just to get people to buy their own custom map. So players will have a dilemma of whether to risk getting ripped off. I'll bet the most popular maps will still be the free ones, and a lot of the pay maps will be %###ty knock offs of the most popular free ones. Putting money into the equation may even make the shilling and spam outnumber the legitimate custom game hosts.

[Crisischild]

I think it will be really tough for any pay-maps to spread virally from player to player as people are hosting custom games. There will probably be shills hosting custom games of their own map just to get people to buy their own custom map. So players will have a dilemma of whether to risk getting ripped off. I'll bet the most popular maps will still be the free ones, and a lot of the pay maps will be %###ty knock offs of the most popular free ones. Putting money into the equation may even make the shilling and spam outnumber the legitimate custom game hosts.

The only things I know for a fact about Premium maps thus far are
A) Blizz is the quality control. They have to chose your map to become a premium map.
B) it has to be a completely original idea, one example they gave is DOTA for SC2 can't become a premium map because it's no longer original.
C)You have to put serious work in to it. All custom sounds, all custom textures, all custom skins.

[Jwray]

You have to put serious work in to it. All custom sounds, all custom textures, all custom skins.

That's *really* excessive, as plenty of great SC1 maps don't have that. We care about the strategy of the map, not the additional eye candy.

[Crisischild]

That's *really* excessive, as plenty of great SC1 maps don't have that. We care about the strategy of the map, not the additional eye candy.

Well, I don't know about terrain textures and all that but from what I've gathered you can't have a Terran Marine running around saying Terran things. I've been googling and they really haven't released very much information on the subject. Wish they'd get around to talking about their ideas for it.

[Jwray]

Well, I don't know about terrain textures and all that but from what I've gathered you can't have a Terran Marine running around saying Terran things. I've been googling and they really haven't released very much information on the subject. Wish they'd get around to talking about their ideas for it.


If they had to completely replace all the units and tech trees, that would be ridiculous for the learning curve.

[Zacd]

I see some reskins being popular.

I think the plan is a map maker makes a few really cool popular maps, his next map he could sell it for money if he put extra work into it.

like lets say I made a TD game, its cool, popular everyone likes it.

So, I decided to reskin and add some guys, so each wave is different, make some cool custom content, add a solo mode, and balance it, would you pay $2 bucks for it?

[Crisischild]

If they had to completely replace all the units and tech trees, that would be ridiculous for the learning curve.


That's what excites me about it. Create my own thing that's not just Starcraft with units damages edited.

[Macktimus]

I see some reskins being popular.

I think the plan is a map maker makes a few really cool popular maps, his next map he could sell it for money if he put extra work into it.

like lets say I made a TD game, its cool, popular everyone likes it.

So, I decided to reskin and add some guys, so each wave is different, make some cool custom content, add a solo mode, and balance it, would you pay $2 bucks for it?

nope id play the basic free version, im not spending money on maps.

[Wolfe]

From a map makers perspective, i love the idea of having people pay for popular maps.

From a game players perspective, i strongly dislike having to pay to play the best of starcraft.

/Shrug

[Rizaun]

Blizzard makes so much money there's no way in hell I'm going to pay 99 cents for a map. They're going to sell millions of copies of SCII, so don't even begin to tell me they need the money to support the game, compounding the billions they bring in from WoW.

Blizzard is not the one charging for the maps, it's the creator, a player like you and me with enough capabilities to develop an incredible custom map.

-----------

Honestly guys, some of you complain about having to purchase premium maps: "Creators spending a lot of time to make a map, develop a story behind it, create the models, rig them, animate and texturize them, record sounds, voice and music, make the script and set the trigger so we, the public, can have fun with it and they dare to charge a few dollars for it!? HERESY!! BURN THEM! BURN THEM ALL!!!"

If you don't want to pay, then don't pay, NOBODY will force you.

[Crisischild]

From a map makers perspective, i love the idea of having people pay for popular maps.

From a game players perspective, i strongly dislike having to pay to play starcraft.

/Shrug


But that's the thing, it's not Starcraft. It's not just a bunch of 'Rines running around with their HP and damage modified. Everything in it is hand crafted by a person/team of people that's not Blizzard. You just use SC2 to play it. And is .50cents really that much to ask for a map someone put (hypothetically) 6 months of work into creating and another month and half of testing and debugging? What if you really like the map? What if it's not like anything you've ever played and you love it? You'd pay for it if you really liked it. Most games that have millions of fans playing online charge .50USD a day to play.

[Ghozt]

Just placing them in your cache doesn't allow them to show up in the beta client.

Just because you cannot find them, etc does not mean some of the hackers who have been active on previous blizzard games wont find a way to get them to work over battle.net. Hacking really cant be stopped tbh, only prolonged. Eventually some guy is going to get his hands on the right stuff and then a few days later a hack will be released. Same goes for this. There is already a hack for beta (albeit a very poor one... but still a hack)

[Crimson]

If I make a custom game with completely original units and spend months on it, would you buy it?



if its a TD map that does not use MAZING hell ya i will

[Crisischild]

Bump for daytime answers.

[Luso]

Technically speaking blizzard owns DoTA (the wc3 version of it). If you read the fine print when the WE loads up, you'll note that there's some text that pretty much says anything made using their tool is blizzard's property. I don't know that they gave the "go ahead" to DoTA branch-off games (or that they needed to since they run on different engines from wc3) but even if blizzard could take legal action I don't think they're frivolous enough to give a damn.

As for premium maps, I'm guessing that blizzard will take a small cut. 9-10 cents off a .99$ map would sound reasonable to me but who knows. I'm pretty paranoid at this stage given how battle.net has been handled so far.

It's all very much in the air still though. Sometimes they talk as if premium maps have to be sponsored by them and follow their strict dress code, whereas at other times they talk about the "market" as though you can put a price value on any map you'd like.