1v1 a Rushfest?

[Havoc]

So I started doing my 10 1v1 matches to determine a ranking, and every one so far has been a rushfest. The first, I lost to a Roach blitz, and since then, I've been going roaches and fighting their rush and trying to win out. I'm doing okay (3 wins, 3 losses) but it feels a bit repetitive. My roaches go against their roaches, then one of us wins with a mutalisk, or they drop a void ray on me or etc etc, but it never evolves beyond that.


I guess my question is; if I want solid, medium-long length games, am I better off in 2's or waiting for 3's?

[Sokuryoku]

So I started doing my 10 1v1 matches to determine a ranking, and every one so far has been a rushfest. The first, I lost to a Roach blitz, and since then, I've been going roaches and fighting their rush and trying to win out. I'm doing okay (3 wins, 3 losses) but it feels a bit repetitive. My roaches go against their roaches, then one of us wins with a mutalisk, or they drop a void ray on me or etc etc, but it never evolves beyond that.


I guess my question is; if I want solid, medium-long length games, am I better off in 2's or waiting for 3's?

Because 6 games is a large enough sample size to make any conclusive statements.

[Droodjerky]

Rather early in your games to make an assumption like it's a rush fest. I just started playing today as well and I find you can force games to go longer by "turtleing" and slow expanding with some harass.

You should probably take what I say with a grain of salt since I'm only in Bronze (moving up quick though).

[Havoc]

That's why I was asking, not stating. I was just curious because six games in a row was odd.

[Havoc]

Thanks for the replies. Good to know it's not a constant trend.

[Sokuryoku]

That's why I was asking, not stating. I was just curious because six games in a row was odd.

Most of my games last 15-20 minutes. Once you play a lot more games you natively learn how to counter each initial harassment/rush. See a quick roach warren? Get some quick hellions and keep them on the defensive while you get some marauders, and upgrades. Force your opponent to be on the defensive.

[Mentlegen]

Game I won today lasted 20 mins roughly. Honestly could have ended it early with 8 roaches since he was teching but I find most games hit 10 mins or so unless it's a mirror match then they're over early as it really comes down to build order so the game can be decided by the first 5 mins.

[Aurum]

What do you mean by "rush"? Most zerg sit in their base massing roaches. Most protoss sit in their base massing stalkers. Most terran sit in their base massing MMM. If you mean they attack you at the 12 minute mark with a lot of units and that means rush, then yes, this is a rush game.

[Havoc]

No, I more meant 4-5 roaches at the 4 minute mark, followed by waves of 4-6 roaches every 45 seconds to a minute until one of us is dead.

[Endureth]

Ya know, before siege tanks and void rays and roaches, there's this thing called tier one. You should check it out.

[Proxygateway]

As you play more and learn the game, you'll learn:

-How important scouting is
-How to process what you see
-How you can use scouting to ensure a win against almost any rush if you see it early enough

Until then, it'll probably just look like "rushing" to you. Higher level players always try to find out what their opponent is doing and react to it, rather than playing blindly and hoping something works like most lower level SC2 players right now.

[Aurum]

Roaches are situational because they don't do extra damage to armored units like terran and protoss units... marauders and immortals hard counter roaches. For zerg only hydralisks seem to really counter roaches. Therefore in ZvZ you will see a lot of roach wars.

[Havoc]

Maybe I'm not playing very good terrans. The terrans I've fought so far tried to counter my rushes with hordes of marines.

And yeah Proxy, I'm a huge scout-!***%. I check on my enemy constantly, I've always got a zergling or two looking things up. I'm not so much complaining about tier-one battles; moreso, I guess I wish they were more varied. It's always roaches vs. marines/marauders vs. zealots/stalkers.

I guess I'd have more fun if zerglings and reapers had more of a place in the fray.

[Zaphrous]

Essentially yes.

Generally as you get to tougher opponents the army combat comes into play sooner.
In a sense its micro pressure the less units on the field the more micro plays into it. The cost of an army is high aswell 2-4 zealots is 4-8 probes. 6 rines = 6 scv's etc Thats a huge early econ difference that has to be made up.
The point of the army is to keep up the pressure and intensity of the game, opponent lets his army slip you out micro it and crush it. If he doesn't maintain production, you reinforce and beat him, if he can't maintain tech + economy you out last him, you build counter troops you are more efficient then him and out mass him.

The army is where 'extra' micro is spent, without armies its just an expand/tech/mass race which eliminates a lot of gameplay.

[Proxygateway]

I've had most of my games last long enough to get to tier 3 as Protoss, for me at least (colossus tech). I have the most problems with mutalisks infact, I think the only games i've had last less than 10min were ones where my opponent skimped on combat units and I was able to overrun him with the normal stuff I made without trying for a rush. ZvZ definitely sounds pretty lame though i'll give you that

[Newcomplex]

What their probably doing is trying to worker harass you, realize you suck and have no defense, and just kill you.

Rarely get rushed. When I do, I counter and roll their face in.

It isn't a "rush" unless they sacrifice their midgame to damage you. A true "rush", when countered, should leave them crippled and easily killed. What your fighting is probably just zerg mass roaches, sending like five to test the water, and killing everything because you can't defend properly.

Watch some replays, wall in with supply depots as terran.

[Havoc]

I get what you mean. Essentially, combat should be happening almost constantly. Tier one units fighting, tier 2, etc. This does raise a good question for me.


Out of fear of getting overwhelmed and therefore fighting rush with rush, I haven't explored the zerg defensive colonies yet. Are they solid?

[Newcomplex]

I get what you mean. Essentially, combat should be happening almost constantly. Tier one units fighting, tier 2, etc. This does raise a good question for me.


Out of fear of getting overwhelmed and therefore fighting rush with rush, I haven't explored the zerg defensive colonies yet. Are they solid?

Unless your doing something wierd, like fast teching or fast expanding, no. Or if they're doing something weird like making a billion zerglings.

Also, ZvZ is the gayest match up right now :p. Try to spice it up a bit, and catch them off guard. Eight pool and rush their workers before they have roaches up, then fastexpand and tech to air for lols.

[Havoc]

What does "eight pool" mean? Eight drones, then spawning pool?

[Newcomplex]

What does "eight pool" mean? Eight drones, then spawning pool?

Yeah. A lot of zerg forgo early game defenses and just go pool->warren, maybe with like two zerglings. An early six zerglings dashing for the workers probably won't kill them if their not retarded, but itll do so much econ damage that you can just do w/e at your leisure.

It won't work versus people at higher silver and gold+, but I don't think thats a problem for you at this point.

[Havoc]

Nice. My dream is to carry out an infestor/hydralisk deadly assault, with dozens of infested terrans entering the fray.

[Mentlegen]

I get what you mean. Essentially, combat should be happening almost constantly. Tier one units fighting, tier 2, etc. This does raise a good question for me.


Out of fear of getting overwhelmed and therefore fighting rush with rush, I haven't explored the zerg defensive colonies yet. Are they solid?

Don't bother with them as they're 150 minerals +1 larva to replace the worker, so actually 200 minerals. Spine crawlers also only do extra to armoured so they're useless vs zerglings, marines, zealots. Basically anything your going to see really early that you need a spine to kill. They do fend off roaches quite well but if you're going to use them just do the cheese tactic of 10 ling 3 spine rush.

[Hulkbot]

Rushes are a qualifying exam to see if you are worthy to get to the rest of the game. It's an unconscious test we perform on eachother. If we pass, then that means we've defended the rush and the game continues. If someone dies to a rush then both of you are wasting your time and one of you needs to learn more to be a quality competitor.

Just how the system is. Don't hate it.

[Nuke]

In 1v1, once you get the feel for things, you won't be losing to rushes anymore and will make it to mid game 99% of the time.

2v2, even if you're prepared, there is a chance the rush will overwhelm you, especially on maps where your ally is at the furthest possible base from you.

[Therasquatch]

I've been really happy so far. I see a lot of "rushes" but they don't feel like rushes, just feels like how the game is played. I played all my placement games as Protoss and SC 2 has made me very happy.

Vs terran I usually play on the defensive. Get Warp Gates quickly, make stalkers and scout. If they're teching to air I push with the stalkers, if they are massing M&M&M I tech to Colossus asap and usually wreck them pretty good.

Vs Zerg you have to scout. Always drop two gates quick and scout. If you don't see a roach warren push with Zots ftw. If you see the warren go up get stalkers and make the push as soon as your first immortal pops up. One immortal with stalkers behind it will tear through a roach army.

All my games vs toss have just turned into zealot micro battles until a victor was had.

[Azile]

Rushes are a qualifying exam to see if you are worthy to get to the rest of the game. It's an unconscious test we perform on eachother. If we pass, then that means we've defended the rush and the game continues. If someone dies to a rush then both of you are wasting your time and one of you needs to learn more to be a quality competitor.

Just how the system is. Don't hate it.


^ this.

'Rush' is a word created by money map no rush 15m players from Starcraft 1 to make themselves feel better about losing. I despise it.

[Anticks]

I think the first 3 games I played were rushes and I haven't seen a rush since. All my games last at least 15mins.

Well a rush as in "either this rush destroys your base or I'm finished" not as in "I'm testing you and trying to disrupt your economy while I build my real army".

[Caustic]

Siege Tanks and Immortals are reliable Roach Counters and you can get them out pretty fast if you got a supply wall up and you go for fast Factory.

I discovered that Siege Tanks are the key to a good defense, and behind a wall on high ground even Toss have some trouble.

[Nevermore]

Rushes are a qualifying exam to see if you are worthy to get to the rest of the game. It's an unconscious test we perform on eachother. If we pass, then that means we've defended the rush and the game continues. If someone dies to a rush then both of you are wasting your time and one of you needs to learn more to be a quality competitor.

Just how the system is. Don't hate it.


QFT
This x1000

[Dreuel]

What does "eight pool" mean? Eight drones, then spawning pool?

Generally when you hear people say "Eight pool" or something like that it means to construct a spawning pool when your supply level hits 8. Often you'll see starting build orders spelled out that go as far as 20 or more supply.

[Fors]

As a Terran player I find that I hardly run into rushes.

Usually it's...

*guy attacks me with mass units*

*mass units die to marine fire at my ramp*

*i send some medivacs to pwn his base*

The only rush I really have to be careful for is the early zergling rush.

[Velvethero]

So I started doing my 10 1v1 matches to determine a ranking, and every one so far has been a rushfest. The first, I lost to a Roach blitz, and since then, I've been going roaches and fighting their rush and trying to win out. I'm doing okay (3 wins, 3 losses) but it feels a bit repetitive. My roaches go against their roaches, then one of us wins with a mutalisk, or they drop a void ray on me or etc etc, but it never evolves beyond that.


I guess my question is; if I want solid, medium-long length games, am I better off in 2's or waiting for 3's?

Rush is really the wrong word here. Its called applying pressure, aka harrassment. Its a part of the game. One you get better and u start going against equally skilled opponents you will learn how to deal with early game harassment and your games will go on for longer. Play more than 6 games before you post crap like this.

[Colrath]

I've been winning a lot of games, because people want to macro up, and don't push out their lots/sailers/lings as quick as I will.

Even if I loose that initial rush, I generally put a pretty big hole in his eco to put it on par with mine anyways.

Stop macroing up and get some units, scout, counter the rush. Then it will turn into a macrofest.