Loss after loss with zerg since patch

[Lycoming]

Before the patch I was at least 10 games over 0.500. Tonight I'm now even. I've lost 8 of the last 10.

I haven't changed my strategy, if anything I've improved on it. I'm using banelings and infestors more effectively as I've learned to play my other units.

Speedlings fail, roach rush fails, hydralisks fail. I can't even get to broodlords. I try to FE, and I get rushed while building the expansion. I tech and I get out expanded. I rush and I run into a wall that I can't get through. Nothing works.

It's MMM balls and stalkers/immortals everywhere.

Heres my standard build order

drones to 10
overlord
13 pool
14 extractor

After this I either try speedlings, roaches, or teching to hydras or mutas...all to no avail.

Anyone other zerg players feeling this frustration?

Back to go to try to not make it 6 in a row :(

[Talbs]

dont use infestors. they only have like 90 hp now they suck

fast expand + roaches to mutalisks every game

dont make zerglings

that should make you start winning more

[Lycoming]

I dunno I hate having to cookie cutter my starting. I mean every terran does MMM, every protoss gets stalkers/immortals. I hate going roaches every time. It's not very diverse.

[Colrath]

With your initial units, don't rush, just prevent them from expanding while you expand. Choke your enemy out.

[Nephrahim]

Zerg are good at map control. I can't remember the last time I actualy attacked my oponent's main base and won in a match while I was playing Zerg.

And Lings are still good, but yeah, roaches are better, so make sure you start pumping them out fast.

Try using their burrow to your advantage. Roaches are really good at running around the map without your opponent being able to do much unless he's toss.

There's very little in your build that was effected by the patch, so... you're just on a losing streak. It happens.

[Andrige]

The best way to win as zerg, is just keep your enemy from expanding while you take over the map. Eventually, he will run out of minerals and you will have free reign to attack him.

[Lycoming]

Yeah I guess that is it. I think I've been trying to kill them too quickly rather than control while I expand. I agree there wasn't anything in the patch that affected me, really, it was more just a frame of reference. I haven't lost this much, this often.

[Gildash]

What everyone is saying is true. I stopped trying anything offensive besides muta harass and instead focused all my attention on keeping my opponents contained.....have been doing WAY better as zerg.

One thing tho to note. I DO find investors useful against terren. I keep one or two in my base in case they take a large MMM army and try to push into my base. The infestors are good because if you cast their fungal thing on the front of the MMM army, it screws them all up cause the front freezes and the rest get stuck., Helps a bit.

[Nataku]

dont use infestors. they only have like 90 hp now they suck

fast expand + roaches to mutalisks every game

dont make zerglings

that should make you start winning more

I skip roach when i can, speedlings won it for me last night, about 12 of them outside toss base, i see him move his units to attack and i run in and attack probs and he gives GG. i looked at reply and untill he moved to attack, he was walled in with zealots/immortal, i just got lucky.

[Anticks]

Heavy toss player but I'm trying to get familiar with the other races now. Just have to say that containing the enemy really does seem like the best strategy, sadly even with the enemy contained and starved, actually finishing it still seems problematic. Just had a game where I locked the enemy toss player into his starting spot along with his natural. I took the rest of the map and started collecting resources everywhere. I built huge armies of various units (mutalisks, roaches, zerglings, etc) that I sent into his base, but each one got slaughtered. I of course eventual won but it took an hour to finally break into his base even though he ran out of resources long ago.

This isn't exactly damning that strategy as I'm only 11 in the copper division and, while I did research zerg beforehand, I probably used units inefficiently. It's just an example to showcase the fact that even attacking a resource-starved base seems difficult for zerg.

[Nataku]

Heavy toss player but I'm trying to get familiar with the other races now. Just have to say that containing the enemy really does seem like the best strategy, sadly even with the enemy contained and starved, actually finishing it still seems problematic. Just had a game where I locked the enemy toss player into his starting spot along with his natural. I took the rest of the map and started collecting resources everywhere. I built huge armies of various units (mutalisks, roaches, zerglings, etc) that I sent into his base, but each one got slaughtered. I of course eventual won but it took an hour to finally break into his base even though he ran out of resources long ago.

This isn't exactly damning that strategy as I'm only 11 in the copper division and, while I did research zerg beforehand, I probably used units inefficiently. It's just an example to showcase the fact that even attacking a resource-starved base seems difficult for zerg.

same thing happened to me actualy... but i lost. i had broodlord and corruptor and we were basicly next to eachother, i sent in broodlords and corruptor (had 6ish brood and 15 or more corruptor) and got gunned down by mass viking, then he just flew into my base from 6 feet away and landed, no way i could have gotten reinforcment in time.

[Dagger]

Heavy toss player but I'm trying to get familiar with the other races now. Just have to say that containing the enemy really does seem like the best strategy, sadly even with the enemy contained and starved, actually finishing it still seems problematic. Just had a game where I locked the enemy toss player into his starting spot along with his natural. I took the rest of the map and started collecting resources everywhere. I built huge armies of various units (mutalisks, roaches, zerglings, etc) that I sent into his base, but each one got slaughtered. I of course eventual won but it took an hour to finally break into his base even though he ran out of resources long ago.

This isn't exactly damning that strategy as I'm only 11 in the copper division and, while I did research zerg beforehand, I probably used units inefficiently. It's just an example to showcase the fact that even attacking a resource-starved base seems difficult for zerg.

Someone walled me in during a match the other day (ZvZ) and I was able to win just by out microing him. He took both high yield expos and had 2 others while i had my base and my natural. Zerg seems rather hard to push a walled in opponent without the exact counter. I spent most of my resources on air though so I could keep his overlord numbers down and I had Roaches at my chokepoint.

[Darkenon]

I've yet to see a single zerg player use overlords to dropship, even though you have enough overlords to drop an entire army

[Kilgoretrout]

I've yet to see a single zerg player use overlords to dropship, even though you have enough overlords to drop an entire army

This is because Nidus Canals are so good now. Building a Nidus worm only costs 100/100, whereas researching overload transport costs 200/200, and if u want the speed its another 50/50 i think + the research time. Nidus worms build slower now, but still pretty fast and a better option than overlord dropships.

[Colrath]

This is because Nidus Canals are so good now. Building a Nidus worm only costs 100/100, whereas researching overload transport costs 200/200, and if u want the speed its another 50/50 i think + the research time. Nidus worms build slower now, but still pretty fast and a better option than overlord dropships.

Overlord speed is one of the first things I get, sometimes even before burrow. I hardly ever set up my overlords to transport units, but I always, ALWAYS get their speed buff.

[Frozen]

Before the patch I was at least 10 games over 0.500. Tonight I'm now even. I've lost 8 of the last 10.

I haven't changed my strategy, if anything I've improved on it. I'm using banelings and infestors more effectively as I've learned to play my other units.

Speedlings fail, roach rush fails, hydralisks fail. I can't even get to broodlords. I try to FE, and I get rushed while building the expansion. I tech and I get out expanded. I rush and I run into a wall that I can't get through. Nothing works.

It's MMM balls and stalkers/immortals everywhere.

Heres my standard build order

drones to 10
overlord
13 pool
14 extractor

After this I either try speedlings, roaches, or teching to hydras or mutas...all to no avail.

Anyone other zerg players feeling this frustration?

Back to go to try to not make it 6 in a row :(

I play random, so the infestor nerf hurt when playing zerg... but the warpgate tech nerf hurts the most out of any modification.

[Sentrysteve]

Heavy toss player but I'm trying to get familiar with the other races now. Just have to say that containing the enemy really does seem like the best strategy, sadly even with the enemy contained and starved, actually finishing it still seems problematic...It's just an example to showcase the fact that even attacking a resource-starved base seems difficult for zerg.

I feel the same way. I'm an ex-copper now bronze league player and I had massive problems finishing my opponent with the Zerg once they were in a defensive position. My only option was the Nydus Worm, which I used with a somewhat decent success rate, but I haven't played Zerg since the patch and with it's increased build time.

One problem with the Zerg is that scouting isn't exactly easy. Once an enemy is walled, all the Zerg have is the Changling. The Changling dies quickly over time, dies quickly to damage, and once the enemy sees your first changeling he will be on the lookout for them and your overseerer for the rest of the game. Not knowing what you're actually attacking makes it much more difficult.

The only time I've "finished" an opponent was with early rushes on inexperienced players or on worker harassment when a battle in going on. I've switched to Protoss recently and it feels great to actually be able to consistently finish opponents.

[Johan]

I've been going through the exact same thing you have. For a week I had been playing very well. I was winning 8 out of 10 games I played. I had worked out an excellent build order and felt like I was improving more and more. Then patch 5 hit and I started losing. I lost every game on the first day and I lost nearly all my games today. I was frustrated and confused: they nerfed protoss and zerg and nothing changed with terrans. I couldn't figure out why I was losing. Then, earlier today, I found out that I had been playing top 10 platinum players for the past two days. I was pretty relieved; I think I'm a decent player but I'm no where near good enough to handle top platinums.

Maybe you're in the same situation and you're just playing people much higher level than you are :P

[Nick]

I have had no problems since the nerf, they were small almost non essential nerfs, except for the nidus. But now I just use it on maps like desert oasis to traverse the map in seconds, if I have a ling at each tower I can be ready for his army whereever he goes, which means I have complete map control and can expand wherever I wish. The one complaint with zerg atm is how long overlord transporting takes to research, you could be T3 by that time, plus you pretty much need to get speed to make it work.

[Levio]

Just mass roaches while teching up. These strats are cookie cutter for a reason.

EDIT: I should add that many very stupid players do this then cry when air beats them. "You should have lost :(". Obviously, get hydras to counter air... Shouldn't even have to say this...

[Rsb]

I must say I hate roaches as much as I hated Hydras in classic. Also: WTB Movement speed upgrade, or burrowed movement on Hydras.

[Zero]

I only use "mass roaches" for a "transitional" stage, where I keep the pressure on my opponents while I expand and tech myself, so I can smoothly move into hydras or mutas, or some combination like hydraling or hydra+ roach+ a few infestors.

Really, though, for me, this is more theoretical, since most of my wins come in this early roach stage, if not in a zergling rush...

[Lendari]

I agree, zerg has no compelling units anymore. I feel like I get out massed by terrans and overpowered by protoss.

I can't fight colossus and PSI storm. I cant fight healing medic masses. Siege tanks own me, battlecruisers own me. Half my units were trash to start with (banelings and to a lesser extent zerglings) and the other half just got nerfed (roaches and hydras) AND they crippled nydus worm the only real offense strategy we had going that didn't involve swarming teeny tiny chokepoints with MELEE UNITS.

Other races have better defensive structures (cannons, bunkers) and better scouting tools (comsat, probe) seriously what is the zerg scouting unit? Overlords? Are you kidding me?

I don't know the kiddies cry about roaches... and yea they were overused but at least they were a compellingly good unit to make. Now everything about zerg is just mediocre. Now they are crying about mutalisks.

But hey, I'm still getting proxy pyloned by protoss.
Glad that got fixed real good.

[Lendari]

You people understand that zerg only has 3 ground units right. lings, roach, hydra? So saying "all zerg mass roaches" is like saying "all zerg make midgame units" because that ALL WE GOT. Stupid roaches. Yay.

The roach\hydra nerf was the most ignorant thing I've ever seen. Do people actually win games with roaches? Seriously... you know they can't attack air right?

Learn to play.

[Armleg]

I agree, zerg has no compelling units anymore. I feel like I get out massed by terrans and overpowered by protoss.

I can't fight colossus and PSI storm. I cant fight healing medic masses. Siege tanks own me, battlecruisers own me. Half my units were trash to start with (banelings and to a lesser extent zerglings) and the other half just got nerfed (roaches and hydras) AND they crippled nydus worm the only real offense strategy we had going that didn't involve swarming teeny tiny chokepoints with MELEE UNITS.

Other races have better defensive structures (cannons, bunkers) and better scouting tools (comsat, probe) seriously what is the zerg scouting unit? Overlords? Are you kidding me?

I don't know the kiddies cry about roaches... and yea they were overused but at least they were a compellingly good unit to make. Now everything about zerg is just mediocre. Now they are crying about mutalisks.

But hey, I'm still getting proxy pyloned by protoss.
Glad that got fixed real good.

+1

Couldn't agree more.

[Lycoming]

You people understand that zerg only has 3 ground units right. lings, roach, hydra? So saying "all zerg mass roaches" is like saying "all zerg make midgame units" because that ALL WE GOT. Stupid roaches. Yay.

The roach\hydra nerf was the most ignorant thing I've ever seen. Do people actually win games with roaches? Seriously... you know they can't attack air right?

Learn to play.

This is a worthless and un-imaginative reply. If you can't write something useful don't write anything at all.

My OP was merely on whether or not other players had noticed a losing trend after the patch. The patch was a time frame, not a cause. Could be stealth nerfs like in WOW, I don't know.

You say roaches are all we have to build and then ask if people actually win with them...odd...yes people do win with them, all the time. Roaches to start, tech to mutas. Add hydras, tech to broods. GG.

[Magpie]

Damn it where are these zerg that keep losing i need to find them and play them.

[revenge]

This is because Nidus Canals are so good now. Building a Nidus worm only costs 100/100, whereas researching overload transport costs 200/200, and if u want the speed its another 50/50 i think + the research time. Nidus worms build slower now, but still pretty fast and a better option than overlord dropships.

Nydus Worms actually cost 200/200 to make the endpoint now, and I believe its the same for the start point.

[revenge]

You people understand that zerg only has 3 ground units right. lings, roach, hydra? So saying "all zerg mass roaches" is like saying "all zerg make midgame units" because that ALL WE GOT. Stupid roaches. Yay.

The roach\hydra nerf was the most ignorant thing I've ever seen. Do people actually win games with roaches? Seriously... you know they can't attack air right?

Learn to play.

Strange, I didn't realize that banelings, ultralisks and infestors were apart of the zerg airforce.

[Armleg]

My record before the patch was around 40-25, after the patch I'm 3-16. I don't even know what to do anymore, I'm confused.

[Dronmor]

how i do it, early game start with roaches, try to get an early kill, if thats not happeneing, quick tech to hydras and mutas, stop them from getting ANY expansion even the one nearest, whenever a CC goes up, mutas take it down, if they mass AA, mass hydra's if they dn't mass AA maim them with mutas, make sure you expand early to keep the hatcheries going

[Dronmor]

I agree, zerg has no compelling units anymore. I feel like I get out massed by terrans and overpowered by protoss.

I can't fight colossus and PSI storm. I cant fight healing medic masses. Siege tanks own me, battlecruisers own me. Half my units were trash to start with (banelings and to a lesser extent zerglings) and the other half just got nerfed (roaches and hydras) AND they crippled nydus worm the only real offense strategy we had going that didn't involve swarming teeny tiny chokepoints with MELEE UNITS.

Other races have better defensive structures (cannons, bunkers) and better scouting tools (comsat, probe) seriously what is the zerg scouting unit? Overlords? Are you kidding me?

I don't know the kiddies cry about roaches... and yea they were overused but at least they were a compellingly good unit to make. Now everything about zerg is just mediocre. Now they are crying about mutalisks.

But hey, I'm still getting proxy pyloned by protoss.
Glad that got fixed real good.

gotta deal with this now
1. if your getting massed by terrans, you fail expand more and L2P
2.collossus get owned by hydras and mutas unless they got a huge meat wall to stop hydras getting in range
3. PSI storm, seriously? move out of it genus
4. siege tanks, mutas
5. BC's? don't let them get that far, if they do, again, hydra's mutas or corrupters
6.speedlings are great and bane lings are the bane of marines (get it?)
7.the roach and hydra nerf was too minor to be felt
8.how about not swarming the chokepoint and just muta mass or starve?
9. all defensive structures suck. period.
10. overseers are, changelings are amazing and if they don't work, make a overlord and suicide run into their base, worth 100 minerals to know what they have
11. change overlords voice i keep thinking its someone IRL yawning