Ask a top 10 platinum protoss

[Dontinquire]

I decided that the terran top 10 thread was awesome enough that we needed one for protoss. In answer to anyones first question, mutalisks are currently unstoppable by a protoss and yes I think they removed the phoenix ability 'overpower' to place in later in an expansion which will then balance PvZ games. I have over 300 games under my belt and I don't mind sharing my dirty secrets, as I haven't played in a few days I might be down to rank 15 or so through atrittion. I have ranked platinum in 1v1, 2v2 random, 2v2 partnered (only 10 placement games), and 2v2 with a partner I lost to in 1v1's. We are currently floating mid 20s I believe. (only played like 20 games).

So if you guys have questions about protoss strats/builds/units... It's pretty much all I play at this point. Ask away.

[Barcibus]

If mutas are so powerful, why isn't the top 10 filled with Zerg and Terrans?

[Azureflames]

If mutas are so powerful, why isn't the top 10 filled with Zerg and Terrans?

Because of Collosus.

[Joneleth]

If mutas are so powerful, why isn't the top 10 filled with Zerg and Terrans?because Terrans don't have mutas.

[Azz]

haha mutalisk are not ^_^.

[Joey]

Do you feel that Terran vs Toss in a late game of Air vs Air superiority is simply overwhelming to defeat? Or are a lot of the complaints that we've seen registered about terran air vs toss simply missing a mechanic in their gameplay to overcome the opposition?

[Bibdy]

Your thread says yes, but your character name says no.

I'm curious what your experience with 2v2 is. Do you and your partner always end up having to turtle against Roaches and/or M&Ms? Those groups of units are so damn frustrating to fight in the early game when they can easily kite the pants off your Zealots.

[Darthjiggles]

I'm going to hop on the protoss air band wagon, is there a lack of AA or is there something I'm missing?
Do you use Psi-storm ?
Is it me or is PvP INCREDIBLY dull..

[Wizbeski]

I'm actually having a tough time beating other protoss who set up 2 gateways and attack with 4 zealots at the 3-4 minute mark in the map where you are on a space station.

Do you have any advice to offer to stop that strategy? I can't block the ramp quick enough because it's big, I often have about 2 marines only, and he'll just smash through the depots even with scvs repairing :(

[Zacd]

How big is your probe?

[Kraal]

2v2 - what do you build to stave off the initial 2-on-1 rush?

[Wizbeski]

How big is your probe?

Ha ha!

Third kind...

+5 to whoever guesses the reference.

[Mikebusto]

I'm going to hop on the protoss air band wagon, is there a lack of AA or is there something I'm missing?
Do you use Psi-storm ?
Is it me or is PvP INCREDIBLY dull..

perhaps i am doing something wrong... unlikely... but I just lost 2 consecutive games against zerg when im toss because even psi-storms dont seem to be very effective against mutas

[Dontinquire]

Do you feel that Terran vs Toss in a late game of Air vs Air superiority is simply overwhelming to defeat? Or are a lot of the complaints that we've seen registered about terran air vs toss simply missing a mechanic in their gameplay to overcome the opposition?
It depends on which "air vs air" you're talking about. What I typically encounter is if I pop out a few void rays (I avoid carriers) they'll spam vikings fairly quickly and attempt to out-expand your damage. Without a supplemental ground force you'll find that your air won't last long against turrets/vikings. I would make it a point to always build ground forces first before going air to avoid a fight like that.

Your thread says yes, but your character name says no.

I'm curious what your experience with 2v2 is. Do you and your partner always end up having to turtle against Roaches and/or M&Ms? Those groups of units are so damn frustrating to fight in the early game when they can easily kite the pants off your Zealots.

Typically in a 2v2 scenario you'll want to have your partner rush someone while you tech as fast as humanly possible to colossus. In a map like lost temple cannons won't save your partner and neither will zealot/sentry spam. They only way to counter that rush (roaches+marines) is to have colossus ready. Immortals will get destroyed by marines, stalkers are worthless against a mass like that, zealots (even with charge) will do little to stem the flow of units, First colossus you have out and they'll already have a big enough push to wreck your whole base. Depending on what race your partner is, you'll have to harass early or have a large cumulative force. It's difficult to counter effectively without defensive structures, having both players build those will likely damage you economically enough so that you can't afford a counter-offensive. You can try psi storm but it takes a long time to build/research, in that same time you could likely build 2 colossus... tough choice but doable either way.

I'm going to hop on the protoss air band wagon, is there a lack of AA or is there something I'm missing?
Do you use Psi-storm ?
Is it me or is PvP INCREDIBLY dull..

PvP is great, tech DT's and proxy pylon in the smoke or high grass by his base. If he goes mass z's/sentries you can usually get a couple DT out and block your entrance or whittle his forces down while DT'ing near his base.

2v2 - what do you build to stave off the initial 2-on-1 rush?
Depends on the race combos. You're going to have to spam zealots/sentries or tech quickly to DT/Colossus. Immortal are only effective combined with a great push from your partner, considering also that they take 1 damage upgrade to 3 shot roaches (vs 4 shot by default) they aren't the best choice to rush to initially.

Also, mutalisks are imbalanced, if they get there, you'll likely lose

[Tanc]

I should make an "Ask a top 10 platinum random player" thread to reduce the amount of these threads.

[Geryth]

I decided that the terran top 10 thread was awesome enough that we needed one for protoss. In answer to anyones first question, mutalisks are currently unstoppable by a protoss and yes I think they removed the phoenix ability 'overpower' to place in later in an expansion which will then balance PvZ games. I have over 300 games under my belt and I don't mind sharing my dirty secrets, as I haven't played in a few days I might be down to rank 15 or so through atrittion. I have ranked platinum in 1v1, 2v2 random, 2v2 partnered (only 10 placement games), and 2v2 with a partner I lost to in 1v1's. We are currently floating mid 20s I believe. (only played like 20 games).

So if you guys have questions about protoss strats/builds/units... It's pretty much all I play at this point. Ask away.

Well Sweetness, I got lots of questions for you right here

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23425557918&sid=5000

[Dontinquire]

Well Sweetness, I got lots of questions for you right here

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23425557918&sid=5000


Interestingly enough I had perused that thread earlier.
First thing is first, natural expansions. My protoss build order is 1 probe on minerals and second probe rally pointed to my entrance immediately builds a pylon and scouts. As soon as you find the zerg, plant your scout probe on the natural expansion. This will prevent a second hatch at 14 drones (you can't actually get z's there quick enough to stop it so quit trying). I'd keybind the probe to 1 or 2 and make sure you check on him, if they try to expand there a great tactic is to plop a pylon right in the way while you send a zealot to hold it off, forcing him to build more lings and stall.

Secondly you bottleneck your base except for 1 hole where zealots can get through. Place your first zealot and a probe there, the probe helps block the choke and prevent speedings from getting through. You can block it completely if you decide just to tech to warp gates and have a sentry/cannon hold the line. During this period you should be teching straight to dark templar. A great zerg player will get detection in some form but the more mediocre players will disregard that to mass units, even if they do get one they'll often mismicro just the one and have it with an offensive force while you runin behind. Once you have 2-3 dt completely DISREGARD his forces and head straight to the drones. If he has a lair and no observer you can typically kill it before he morphs an OL. At that point it's a matter of drone slaying, ALWAYS GO FOR VESPENE DRONES FIRST!! Mediocre players (again not effective vs pros) will forget to reset their drones on vespene and may spend whole minutes of the match losing it.

Thirdly, I would say have 3-6 warp gates and DO NOT EXPAND YET!! At this point it's about 6-7 minutes into the game. I can save a replay of this for you or just stream sometime. If you do expand don't use your natural, the advantage of warp gates is that you can quickly mobilize an army, summon 3 dts to defend an expo while moving in with your main force to his base. Find an expo blocked by terrain and make sure he hasn't got an overlord placed there, great expansions are ones you see him scout at the beginning of the game, a lot of time players will scout initially and never look back.

I would avoid the following units vs a zerg completely in a 1v1 situation.
1. Carriers (hydras or mutas or zerglings counter these, zerglings can move so quickly that a nexus is dead long before you kill them).
2. Immortals - dependent upon your build/their build, hydras and lings and mutas all counter these pretty well, they're only good for roaches which a great player is only going for temporarily, the permanent solution being tier 2 units (mutas, hydras) and lings obviously #@!# them.
3. High templar - !?!??!?! High templar psi storm cast timer and reduced damage has caused it to become extremely ineffective against a talented player. They will have hydras/speedlings/mutalisks. Your best defense at that point is to join a new game because you let this one go on too long. PSI storm is extremely difficult to deploy effectively, they also specifically buffed hydra HP to counter it (90 hp for 80 damage storm) and roaches will outregen in like 5 seconds.
4. Void Rays - limited effectiveness, easily countered, hard to mobilize quickly. Zerg #@!# these, awful counter.

Morale of the story is this, quit playing defensively and hiding in your base, get DT's in his base instantly and stop the mutalisks, if he goes hydras then mass zealot/sentries. Bait him into a primary base that is depleted while hammering from an unknown expansion, Colossus are also effective but if he makes it to mutas the game is over.

On the off chance you foolishly allow him an expansion and mutas start coming out, EXPAND EXPAND EXPAND CANNON CANNON CANNON CANNON CANNON. That's only to draw the game out while you pump enough ground units to overrun him. You probably already lost though. I think I got carried away... In summation - mutas are overpowered, don't let them get there, harass better

[Dontinquire]

cutting on my stream. Haven't played in a bit so I'll be rusty. It's there if you guys want to see it.

www.livestream.com/inquirevision

[Vverm]

this is actually quite humorous lol

[ankhol]

Warp prisms, what is your take on them?

and....

when do you rush against zerg? do you even rush terran?

[samuel]

Best idea for initial roach rush?

[Rilgon]

Best idea for initial roach rush?This. How the HELL do you defend against 6-8 quick Roaches?

[ankhol]

roaches are probably the easiest thing to deal with for toss, if you have 1 or two stalkers and a sentry and a couple of zealots clogging your base, there's no way they'll do #*#!

[Dontinquire]

For roach rush 1 cannon or 2 stalkers. Scouting is key, hold the xel'naga so you know how many to expect.

[Acosnil]

I wonder how many protoss players realize the sentry's wall ability literally blocks pathing up small ramps?

I've won games with it. Watch as opponents cry their eyes out when they think they're safe from a proxy pylon drop in their base only to discover their enemy simply did it outside of their LOS, and then used sentries to effectively lock their opponent's army out of their own base.


I've been called some pretty bad things because of it.

[Limble]

The fact that you have played 200 games and are top 10 platinum doesn't qualify you to state that anything is "unstoppable".

The proper way to deal with mutalisk just hasn't been fully developed yet (hint: fast tech stargate, but adjust if you scout roaches or zergling rush).

The same thing occured in BW, everyone thought mutalisk were unstoppable, but we all know that is not true now.

The game is 2 weeks old, give it some time folks.

[Messana]

because Terrans don't have mutas.

Don't you have some complaining to do about liftoff?

[Barcibus]

The fact that you have played 200 games and are top 10 platinum doesn't qualify you to state that anything is "unstoppable".

The proper way to deal with mutalisk just hasn't been fully developed yet (hint: fast tech stargate, but adjust if you scout roaches or zergling rush).

The same thing occured in BW, everyone thought mutalisk were unstoppable, but we all know that is not true now.

The game is 2 weeks old, give it some time folks.
The number 1 guy in Korea said the same thing. I think they may be qualified to know what they can say, more than you're qualified to know what they can say.

[Refraxion]

You can rush terran, but you have to harass them with some stalkers outside of their base, force them out and it's gravy.

Also, I find sentries (lots) mixed in with some stalkers is a huge counter to muta's.

[Maben]

What do you do against EMP? Almost every time I play against a Terran now they build about 3 ghosts and clump them into their army. No amount of dancing/targeting allows me to pick them off before they EMP my force. After my entire army is at half health and they are running stimpack the battle is over in literally about 5 seconds.

What are my solutions here?

[Dontinquire]

What do you do against EMP? Almost every time I play against a Terran now they build about 3 ghosts and clump them into their army. No amount of dancing/targeting allows me to pick them off before they EMP my force. After my entire army is at half health and they are running stimpack the battle is over in literally about 5 seconds.

What are my solutions here?
1. Reduce the overall shield of zealots by 60. Now you lose less life on an EMP!!!
2. Micromanagement, don't cluster your army together.
3. Psi Storm (theoretically)
4. Feedback (hypothetically)
5. Phoenix grav lift (haha)
6. Expand (win the economic battle)
Psi storm used to be the answer but it's really crappy now....
The problem is that protoss casters have little or no other effective uses. you might get a couple of psi storms or feedback off but if 6,000,000 MM rush your base you will likely get slaughtered taking an emp. The only answer is to rush him so fast he can't get to ghosts. Teching up will mean a few less M&M speed zealots/DT may be able to overpower him before the masses get there. Protoss casters are a little less versatile and kind of slower than the other races. HT really need a speed buff to dodge that crap.

[Wyndrunner]

psi storms seem to own my Roach/Hydra attacks. I now always go to Mutas against Protoss.