Have you forgotten why you are here?

[Jrange]

I see a bunch of people saying "Waahhh, I'm guess I'll play Terran now, since they are so OP and since I am getting nerfed, because playing the race I like less will definitely help them get balanced."

You are here to help the game get better. You gotta play the the changes so they can see how the changes affect the game. That is the point of a beta. The game isn't out. You didn't buy it. Most of you didn't do anything to "deserve" a spot in this game, and there are thousands of people who would take your spot in a second.

The only way the game is going to balance is if all races are played. The game is going to change A LOT from now to release.

Anyone who says the Protoss aren't worth playing now because they can't win doesn't deserve to be here. Play the game, give feedback, and quit crying. It's free.

[Essentia]

I see a bunch of people saying "Waahhh, I'm guess I'll play Terran now, since they are so OP and since I am getting nerfed, because playing the race I like less will definitely help them get balanced."

You are here to help the game get better. You gotta play the the changes so they can see how the changes affect the game. That is the point of a beta. The game isn't out. You didn't buy it. Most of you didn't do anything to "deserve" a spot in this game, and there are thousands of people who would take your spot in a second.

The only way the game is going to balance is if all races are played. The game is going to change A LOT from now to release.

Anyone who says the Protoss aren't worth playing now because they can't win doesn't deserve to be here. Play the game, give feedback, and quit crying. It's free.

Try playing as Protoss vs any kind of competent Terran player and then come back to me.

[Lagorathia]

beta privileges REVOKED

why would you even post that. think about it. you're complaining about the balance of a game that you have the amazing opportunity to be a part of in it's beta phases. get over yourself.

[Bibdy]

Protoss players would do this game a huge service by all switching to Terran and obliterating the remaining Protoss players to make a point.

Protoss in 2v2 are just @@#!ing pathetic in T1-1.5 now.

[Jrange]

Try playing as Protoss vs any kind of competent Terran player and then come back to me.

Being that I haven't played the Protoss at all in SC2 and only during single player in SC1, I'd probably not be the best person to be the judge of their balance.

If they nerfed the Zerg to oblivion I would still use them because:

1. This is beta, nothing is in stone.
2. This is beta, I don't care if I win.
3. Zerg is the race I enjoy playing the most, even when I lose.
4. If they are in fact too weak to compete, Blizzard (being the competent company they are) will fix it.

My goal here is to make sure the game is as balanced as possible when it comes out. The game is not finished. Who cares if you win or lose? None of these rankings matter.

[Essentia]

Being that I haven't played the Protoss at all in SC2 and only during single player in SC1, I'd probably not be the best person to be the judge of their balance.

If they nerfed the Zerg to oblivion I would still use them because:

1. This is beta, nothing is in stone.
2. This is beta, I don't care if I win.
3. Zerg is the race I enjoy playing the most, even when I lose.
4. If they are in fact too weak to compete, Blizzard (being the competent company they are) will fix it.

My goal here is to make sure the game is as balanced as possible when it comes out. The game is not finished. Who cares if you win or lose? None of these rankings matter.

Well if the last 2 patches are any way to judge Blizz's balance skills I wouldn't have too much confidence. But I am hopeful bc of the balance of SC1 :)

However you have to understand some of us (not me, but some) are planning to take SC2 VERY seriously and possibly try to go pro, so maybe you can understand our frustration when the race we're trying to specialize in gets a big nerf. Now if the nerf is justified thats fine, however I dont think this nerf was necessary.

[Jrange]

Well if the last 2 patches are any way to judge Blizz's balance skills I wouldn't have too much confidence. But I am hopeful bc of the balance of SC1 :)

Stacraft was a relative mess when it came out. Bugs and glitches and imbalances. It took 3 years to get it to a point where people thought it was even close to perfect.

However you have to understand some of us (not me, but some) are planning to take SC2 VERY seriously and possibly try to go pro, so maybe you can understand our frustration when the race we're trying to specialize in gets a big nerf. Now if the nerf is justified thats fine, however I dont think this nerf was necessary.

And in order to test this, people have to try it out. There are going to be a lot of changes. I know it sucks when things get nerfed, but Blizzard knows this game better than me, and most people. They know the game plan, we don't. Until the game is released, I can't see how anyone can make any real determinations.

[Bibdy]

Being that I haven't played the Protoss at all in SC2 and only during single player in SC1, I'd probably not be the best person to be the judge of their balance.

If they nerfed the Zerg to oblivion I would still use them because:

1. This is beta, nothing is in stone.
2. This is beta, I don't care if I win.
3. Zerg is the race I enjoy playing the most, even when I lose.
4. If they are in fact too weak to compete, Blizzard (being the competent company they are) will fix it.

My goal here is to make sure the game is as balanced as possible when it comes out. The game is not finished. Who cares if you win or lose? None of these rankings matter.

If a bunch of skilled Protoss players suddenly switch, and their win-rate suddenly sky-rockets, don't you think Blizzard would get the message?

[Jrange]

If a bunch of skilled Protoss players suddenly switch, and their win-rate suddenly sky-rockets, don't you think Blizzard would get the message?

And if their win rate doesn't sky-rocket?

There's also the chance that everyone switches to the Terrans... and then the win rate stays the same because you only face Terrans and Zerg.

[Jrange]

BTW, I agree that the nerf was unnecessary, but I'm willing to see how it plays out.

[Kat]

I'm pretty sure most people are complaining about the fact that we've been giving suggestions and feedback since the beta began and it appears to be worthless.

I dont necessarily believe that to be true, but i think that is the general sentiment. A lot of good balance ideas are floating around these forums, and people are annoyed that when the patch comes out it includes a random toss nerf and a big terran buff.

[Jrange]

I'm pretty sure most people are complaining about the fact that we've been giving suggestions and feedback since the beta began and it appears to be worthless.

I dont necessarily believe that to be true, but i think that is the general sentiment. A lot of good balance ideas are floating around these forums, and people are annoyed that when the patch comes out it includes a random toss nerf and a big terran buff.

So the problem is impatience? This beta is a marathon, it's going to last at least 3 months. Blizzard isn't going to look at a suggestion and say "Oh yeah! That's great! Let's put it in tomorrow!" They have to decide the best way to implement an idea, how it will change every aspect it touches, etc. I bet they have a looooong list of changes they plan on making. They have to do it incrementally to see how each change affects the gameplay.

[Essentia]

So the problem is impatience? This beta is a marathon, it's going to last at least 3 months. Blizzard isn't going to look at a suggestion and say "Oh yeah! That's great! Let's put it in tomorrow!" They have to decide the best way to implement an idea, how it will change every aspect it touches, etc. I bet they have a looooong list of changes they plan on making. They have to do it incrementally to see how each change affects the gameplay.

Even if a large consensus of people say the same thing about balance shouldnt Blizz listen to them? Whats the point of even giving our views if the patch literally didnt address any of the current discussion points?

[Nick]

Every new terran player is a new victory for my record. 60% of my games are already against T, thanks for the wins!

[Jrange]

Even if a large consensus of people say the same thing about balance shouldnt Blizz listen to them? Whats the point of even giving our views if the patch literally didnt address any of the current discussion points?

A large consensus of people say a lot of things. I remember a post a few days ago that had a picture of the thread listing and there was a topic for each race, saying they are OP.

I was on Team Liquid's site and the forum there seemed to think the Protoss was the most powerful. Then, I come here and it is the Terrans. Then I go on the ladder listing and 4 of the top 8 are Zerg.

Who's to say they haven't listened? They just have a lot of changes to consider, release, and test. All we can do is play through, keep testing, or try something new. Maybe playing Terran will bring you a new perspective. Maybe not. We'll just have to wait and see.

Obviously, you are hear to voice your opinion, but throwing a tantrum at every change helps no one.

[Nightmare]

A large group of people can talk about whatever change they want.

A large group of people are usually wrong about whatever they're agreeing on.

Case in point, TvZ. After Patch 2 hit, Zerg players ganged the forums and said "Marauders are OP, MMM completely @!%#s my 100% Roach army, Blizz this is ridiculous!"

1 week later: MMM is viable but not unbeatable. Someone figured out this putting Zerglings and Banelings, Hydralisks, and a few Infestors for FG support (the clutch unit actually being Infestor and Banelings) actually #!%%s all over MMM if they have no other units. And yet amazingly enough, though no game mechanics have changed between then and now (now being a few hours ago before the 3rd patch), MMM is not as invincible as it once was.

Before you come on the forums and talk about "I think this is OP and player A-Z think it's OP too so it must be", try thinking outside the box and coming up with some countermeasures on your own. At least try something different when you fight the same strategy. "I massed Marines and Medivacs against Protoss 10 times but they built Colossi every time and ruined my strategy, OP!!!"

Blizzard isn't asking you to play like Boxer, but I think they want you to try some of the 10 or so units that you haven't even tried yet.

[Yaz]

Even if a large consensus of people say the same thing about balance shouldn't Blizz listen to them? Whats the point of even giving our views if the patch literally didn't address any of the current discussion points?

Because those talking are a vocal minority, especially on certain issues, and it's easy for blizzard to see that by knowing how many people are in beta and stats from games being played. Just because you can find a dozen people on the forums that are willing to spam multiple posts about a topic you agree with doesn't mean it's actually true. However that's the way most people look at it: "Oh look five people posted in a row agreeing with my claim that Thors are incredibly overpowered and should lose the ability to target air so it's obviously true and Blizzard better nerf them immediately!"

[Messana]

Try playing as Protoss vs any kind of competent Terran player and then come back to me.

You missed the entire point of his post. Congratulations.

[Toridas]

"As a beta test participant, you’ll have the chance to experience the multiplayer gameplay of StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty and explore the social-networking, matchmaking, and other new features of the revamped Battle.net® online-gaming service. Throughout the StarCraft II beta, you’ll be able to take part in cooperative and competitive battles as the terrans, protoss, and zerg -- and at the same time, you’ll be helping us test the stability of the Battle.net service and fine-tune the game balance prior to launch. We look forward to hearing your feedback, and we’ll see you on Battle.net!"

Sorry OP I don't see anything about having to test the changes.

[Elmizzt]

"As a beta test participant, you’ll have the chance to experience the multiplayer gameplay of StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty and explore the social-networking, matchmaking, and other new features of the revamped Battle.net® online-gaming service. Throughout the StarCraft II beta, you’ll be able to take part in cooperative and competitive battles as the terrans, protoss, and zerg -- and at the same time, you’ll be helping us test the stability of the Battle.net service and fine-tune the game balance prior to launch. We look forward to hearing your feedback, and we’ll see you on Battle.net!"

Sorry OP I don't see anything about having to test the changes.

fine-tune the game balance prior to launch

[Toridas]

fine-tune the game balance prior to launch


doesn't imply anything about having to play or not play a certain race like the OP is crying about

[Bibdy]

And if their win rate doesn't sky-rocket?

There's also the chance that everyone switches to the Terrans... and then the win rate stays the same because you only face Terrans and Zerg.

Then they'll be humbled and may learn something about the game. I doubt that will be the case. I'm sick and tired of getting steamrolled by mass M&M or Roaches, or even against double Terran massing Marines, all in 2v2, and getting stomped without a damned thing I can do to stop it.

I've watched some of these replays of my losses over and over and there is not a damn thing you can do to stop some of them. You cannon up on higher ground with Photon Cannons, with a wall of Zealots? They just Comsat the higher ground, obliterate the Cannons and march on through. They think the defenses are too strong? They attack my ally, forcing me to come out, utterly destroying my useless Zealots in an open field, leaving me with just Stalkers and Sentries to fight with, which fall to pieces under Marauder fire.

I just don't understand the purpose of this Zealot nerf. I can't believe they would make the T1-T1.5 game even worse over continued complaints about the Zealot Proxy rush. That would be balancing the game around the Copper level right now, because Its such an easy strat to beat.

Either there's some super-high level 1v1 play where Zealots are just dominating and something had to be done at the expense of Protoss 2v2, or Blizzard are just out of their fricking minds.

[Zasz]

doesn't imply anything about having to play or not play a certain race like the OP is crying about

Actually the only people crying on these boards are Protoss players thinking -10 shields on Zealots will shatter their win record. While I'm not exactly sure what prompted Blizzard to make that change, I'd hardly call it game-breaking.

While we're on the topic of the patch, I love how people describe it as a Protoss Nerf (which is true) and a HUGE Terran Buff. LOL Huge buff? 30 seconds off of upgrade times yaaay. They're still slower than every other race's.

For the topic at hand, I agree with the OP, people seem to forget that they're playing this game for free in order to help Blizzard fine tune game balance and Bnet 2.0. Instead of keeping that in mind, people seem to think this is their way to get a jump start into e-Sports when the game goes live. While this is all fine and dandy, remember what you're supposed to be doing while you're here.

That said, I've always thought that the best way to test these games was to let the playerbase run free. If every game was over at the 6 minute mark, maybe Blizzard would look at rushing. If 50% of games ended in a stalemate, maybe Blizzard would look at implementing a draw system. If 75% of Protoss players switch to Terran or Zerg, maybe Blizzard would look at Protoss.

The best way to test the game is to play it the way you want. That doesn't mean you should come to the forums and spew molten emo all over the boards. If you have a suggestion, post it.

[Surael]

That said, I've always thought that the best way to test these games was to let the playerbase run free. If every game was over at the 6 minute mark, maybe Blizzard would look at rushing. If 50% of games ended in a stalemate, maybe Blizzard would look at implementing a draw system. If 75% of Protoss players switch to Terran or Zerg, maybe Blizzard would look at Protoss.

The best way to test the game is to play it the way you want. That doesn't mean you should come to the forums and spew molten emo all over the boards. If you have a suggestion, post it.

This is unbelievably true, and will only prove itself more correct as more beta invites are sent out. When Blizzard needs more test data, they get more testers. What we do here and now in the beta will reflect on what the rest of the world will do once they have the game. They'll whine about M&M until they discover the counters. They'll whine about roaches being too strong and mutas being too fast and proxy gateways and warp prisms having unlimited storage and all the other inane things that newbies think are true and hard-lined because it once happened to them and they lost because of it.

Play it how you WANT to play it. If your only goal is to have lots of wins and not many losses, play it that way. You aren't the only one, and the data you present Blizzard by doing that will help them determine effects of changes and make conclusions.

Point of fact, you can't play and NOT test the changes. Just playing does the job for you.

[Bibdy]

They'll whine about M&M until they discover the counters.

I've been at this for 2 weeks in the Platinum and Gold divisions. There is no solid counter. Zealots get ripped to shreds, usage of Guardian Shield (to protect your Zealots with it) or Force Field (to plant behind them and stop them kiting) requires the Sentry to approach marine firing range, Stalkers get gunned down by Marauders before they can put a dent in them, Immortals can help you focus down the Marauders, but the Marines just tear them to pieces, Void Rays are just a waste of resources against masses of Marines, and the only two viable counters: Psi Storm and Collossi with a range upgrade, take far, far too long to reach, giving the Terran all the time in the world to field some T2 tanks, plant them just outside your base, Comsat your defenses, and smash through your base without any concern for AOE damage.

All you can do is tower up, sit on your ass, and tech to Collossi and hope the Terran is stupid.

[Celsian]

Why are any of us here? In fact, where is here?

[Jrange]

doesn't imply anything about having to play or not play a certain race like the OP is crying about

I'm not crying about anything. The only people crying right now are short-sighted Protoss players. I think you should play whatever race is the most fun for you, whether you win or not. If you lose... so what? If you only have fun playing the strongest race, then play what you think the strongest race is. But only toddlers think throwing a temper tantrum actually helps anything. I never said anything about having to play a certain race. If you want your race to be as balanced as possible, you have to stick with it and play it. If you have no racial allegiance, then move on... you don't really care anyway.

[Joneleth]

I know why we're here, to whine and moan and lament over the lack of public chat and how this game is not quite like WarCraft 3!


That and Protoss nerfs.

or buffs, depending on the day of the week.

[Windstorm]

So far, I'm loving the beta testing phase. People who claim units are OP are countering with the wrong units. How come no one ever seems to talk about Zerg? There aren't as much Z players, I see them once every 6 games or so. Anyways, let's all just enjoy that we're here playing what seems to 'almost' finished game for free. Everyone should just 'hf.' Try all the races so when the SC2 goes live we can say that we helped fix those imbalances during beta phase.




For the queen!

[Redscare]

Well if the last 2 patches are any way to judge Blizz's balance skills I wouldn't have too much confidence. But I am hopeful bc of the balance of SC1 :)

However you have to understand some of us (not me, but some) are planning to take SC2 VERY seriously and possibly try to go pro, so maybe you can understand our frustration when the race we're trying to specialize in gets a big nerf. Now if the nerf is justified thats fine, however I dont think this nerf was necessary.

Oh hey looks like you were trying to make tech to roaches here, np my proxy gateway will clear your base right up without trying. Thanks for massing some lings to give us a nice back scratch while we slice up your base.