Protoss how do you fight zerg?

[Failoc]

I cant beat them. they get overlords over my base right away and i cant do anything about it till i get stalkers. if i go for quick stalkers they do quick zerglings. if i fight the zerglings with zealots i get a ton of roaches.

[Messana]

WE CHANNEL THE LIGHT OF AIUR.

[Wingless]

20 Roaches < 3 immortals? Really going ground against protoss makes me wince like 75% of the time. It can be done its just not pretty. Basically since you provided no details Im gonna take a stab at the most likely and say you need to stop him from out expanding you.

Immortals Stalkers Zealots Colossi all in one big pile roll over his base.

Edit: Also am I the only one who doesnt think zerglings are a counter to stalkers? Never seems to work out well once theres more then like 10 of them.

[Riken]

speedlings > stalkers

they need backup like hydras of course to make it effective.

[Failoc]

20 Roaches < 3 immortals? Really going ground against protoss makes me wince like 75% of the time. It can be done its just not pretty. Basically since you provided no details Im gonna take a stab at the most likely and say you need to stop him from out expanding you.

Immortals Stalkers Zealots Colossi all in one big pile roll over his base.

Edit: Also am I the only one who doesnt think zerglings are a counter to stalkers? Never seems to work out well once theres more then like 10 of them.

I have difficulty surviving long enough to get the immortals out and if I do manage that the zerg has switched to Mutas.

[Munashiimaru]

speedlings > stalkers

they need backup like hydras of course to make it effective.

Yea, but everythings greater than stalkers. They're an anti-armored unit that can't take any other armored unit one for one or cost for cost.

You can either go pheonix harrass into whatever you need to win or immortals if you see a roach warren go down. If you scout that they're not going roaches you can probably double gate push and take him out.

[Riken]

Yea, but everythings greater than stalkers. They're an anti-armored unit that can't take any other armored unit one for one or cost for cost.

Eh but they are easily massed with warp gates early on, as well as being easily micro'd with blink if you get it.

When I see 15+ stalkers when I got a lesser number of Mutas I always cry :(

[Munashiimaru]

Eh but they are easily massed with warp gates early on, as well as being easily micro'd with blink if you get it.

When I see 15+ stalkers when I got a lesser number of Mutas I always cry :(

Just fly away until you can get some lings on them or an equal number of mutas.

[Riken]

Just fly away until you can get some lings on them or an equal number of mutas.

Of course, that's what Mutas are best at, but cost for effectiveness Stalkers aren't so bad

[Magpie]

Eh but they are easily massed with warp gates early on, as well as being easily micro'd with blink if you get it.

When I see 15+ stalkers when I got a lesser number of Mutas I always cry :(

By the time a protoss has 15+ stalkers, the zerg should definitely have the resources / time to easily counter it.

[Failoc]

instead of talking about how the game should be, which wont fix the problem im having right now, can anyone tell me how they fight off the zerg early game (tier 1-1.5) I have the most difficulty surviving the initial wave of roaches. the zerg usually has about 6-8 roaches when i have about 4 zealots 1 sentry and 2 stalkers.

[Riken]

instead of talking about how the game should be, which wont fix the problem im having right now, can anyone tell me how they fight off the zerg early game (tier 1-1.5) I have the most difficulty surviving the initial wave of roaches. the zerg usually has about 6-8 roaches when i have about 4 zealots 1 sentry and 2 stalkers.

that should be enough to kill them at your choke, if not I'd suggest getting a cannon or two then tech to Immortal asap which isn't that hard, you should have 3 or 4 out before they would have enough roaches to break down two cannons + lots at a choke.

[Lykos]

instead of talking about how the game should be, which wont fix the problem im having right now, can anyone tell me how they fight off the zerg early game (tier 1-1.5) I have the most difficulty surviving the initial wave of roaches. the zerg usually has about 6-8 roaches when i have about 4 zealots 1 sentry and 2 stalkers.

Do you use chrono boost? And if you do, what do you use it on? I myself have learned it's best to wait to use it after your first gateway is warping. I usually make a pylon while the 9th or 10th supply probe is building. Then I wait (don't queue up any probes while the pylon is warping as that will tie up your resources for a gateway as soon as the pylon is done. Warp that gateway in when you're at 10/18 supply then . . .

Well things can depend but from there. I make probes like mad. Make a probe, cast chrono boost on that nexus and make sure you have a probe in there constantly. do not let the boost run with nothing in it. You should have enough resources rate to get a zealot out when the gate is done and somewhere before then make a pylon so you don't cap on supply and keep making probes with boost or it might be time to boost your gate now or go forge for weapon upgrades and a cyber core soon. I don't know. It'll take intuitiveness on your part to know what to do.

Oh and use your hotkeys.
e probe
e probe
e probe
b e pylon
e probe
b g gateway
e probe
c chrono boost
e probe
e probe
c chrono boost




And hotkey your nexus to 5 so you can call it up fast. And don't cast chrono boost if one is currently in effect. there's no point in stacking it.

[Dronmor]

just wall in your choke, that should deal with a rush

[Skelo]

Here's pretty much how I beat zergs:

Firstly, block your ramp with your pylon and first gateway with 1 space to let your units through (turn on building grid if you need to). Note you should probably get ur gateway at about 12 supply. This is essential because when thhose first 6 lings come to you you better be blocked or theyre gonna micro them around your probes and probably screw up your economy at least a decent amount.

Scout their base somewhat early. I play random so they don't know I'm protoss, but if they know you're protoss, they will probably go for a roach rush if they are good, meaning a late spawning pool. If you see this (14 pool or later), they are probably going roaches and you want to tech to immortal asap. If you see they went really early spawning pool (6-10) you probably want to save some chrono for that zealot. Anything else you probably still want to go immortal, but just be a bit heavier on the zealots and you have a bit extra time before you have to cyber core. How to tell what time they built it: look at the spawning pool's hp bar and you can get a rough estimate with experience. If they are late spawning pool, don't be tempted into a zealot rush because they will have a queen and those roaches will be out by the time enough zealots get there.

Get some zealots (with 2 gateways), but be fast to get both assimilators. Zealots should be blocking the ramp, and before you have enough of them blocking the gap between the pylon and gateway. This will stop a zergling rush (particularly if you saw them do a pool at 6-10 supply, and you chrono'd your zealot). When you get assimilators and the 2nd gateway and zealots is a judgement call based on your scout. Also get a cyber core some time around the assimilators and keep your probes and pylons going.

After your cyber is done, build your robotics and try to get a sentry or two. You might have to chrono the sentry. Around when your robotics is done they'll prob come knocking on your door with roaches (probably 3-6) if they are doing a roach rush (which almost all good zerg will vs a protoss). Stall with your zealots and most importantly your sentry. If they are bad, you can forcefield some of them on the ramp and get them stuck there and your zealots can kill them. Otherwise, they will dance back and forth hurting your zealots, but not getting into your base. Worst case you forcefield the ramp so they cant walk up at all.

Chrono your immortal and move it up. They might have some backup so dont just charge it in, esp if they have lings. If they don't run away from seeing your immortal, you can kill their roaches with it and then counter attack immediately with another chrono'd immortal (maybe an obs in there too).

On the attack: If you see a fast expand, sometimes it is best to ignore it (just a judgement call) and go to their main base. Kill the Queen if it defends (and roaches or whatever) and go for any t2 buildings (hydra den, spire) and then start killing drones. Send reinforcements: zealots and immortals and maybe sentries if you lost yours from earlier. If you don't have any zealots left, make sure to get them because they will be going lings to kill your immortals. Kill the spawning pool if you can too to stop this. Killing some of these buildings can be touch though because good players will put them behind the mineral patch allowing their drones to block your way and kill your immortals if you move it. You can just kill some drones and go for the hatchery or other structures then. Again, judgement call. Really important to keep your zealots with your immortals to stop too many lings from hitting them. Most not great zerg will just keep sending lings at you as soon as they are done and they will do almost no damage, so its not a big problem. Just make sure to continue your macro (more buildings and units and so forth) and watch out for what t2 buildings they might be going and watch your micro vs drones and lings defense.

A good zerg will probably retreat their roaches as soon as they see an immortal. Then, you have a game going and you can decide to try to counter with your immortals, or expand or build up some more. You def want to scout immediately (maybe with an observer, maybe with a ground unit) and check if its mutas or hydras. If it's hydras I usually go more immortals and zealots with colossus, depending on how much gas i might have. If it's mutas, more sentries, maybe a few stalkers and consider going air (phoenix), but don't go too phoenix heavy cuz they can easily stop building mutas and start going hydras and then they will be close to useless.

Protoss defense relies heavily on the sentry force field, so if you get good at using it to seperate their units and trap them so your zealots can get to them, it should be wins all over the place against all the races, particularly against rushes (or if you're rushing yourself).

Some other things could happen, but my anti roach rush here

note: editted

[Proletaria]

If you allow the zerg more than 12 mutas, the game is generally over. Your stalkers, even with blink, are not even close to the mobility of a mutalisk and you will be contained while the zerg vastly out-expands you.

Preventing a rush isn't increbidly difficult (a few maps make it darn hard though), but the early game is a stomping ground for zerg. Playing agressively isn't something you can do and they will/should out-expo you before you can counter roaches. From the get-go you should be aiming to harass them and prevent them from taking advantage of the early lead. Most toss opt to phoenix harass their queens, overlords, and dones (grav beam on the ground units). This takes around 3-4 phoenix so you need to be quick.

At that point in the game, like I said, you're just hoping you did enough to prevent a muta cloud from forming. If you can keep the pressure on with zealots, sentries, stalkers, immortals (or colossai, depending on their choice of groun troops) then you may just squeak out a win, but by in large the zerg will set up enough spores to keep the phoenix harass to a minimum.

Mid-late game we can't win the air and on the ground we'll still loose if we're still out-resourced from t1-2. Agressive play at these critical points and incredible macro/micro are what will get you zerg wins. Nothing else. Protoss look fairly weak vs. Zerg and Terran right now. I don't know which is a worse MU given mutas and ghosts are both nearly impossible to stop, but there are Toss players getting wins with superior strategies and skill so keep playing and hopethat the next patch gives us something new to work with.

[Apollo]

Skelo, would you happen to have any replays you can share? I really like your strat.

[Valfor]

I get a quick forge and make a choke on the ramp using it and the gateway on the main entrance. make a few photon towers and that will keep roaches just camped outside the base.

Then i rush phoenixes - kill the overlords and economy harass. just remember to build ground defenses too, 3 immortals and some zealots should do fine.
The main thing is knowing how to handle the phoenixes, using them to kill the queens and such and retreating/ harassing another base/expansion if he sends more than a few hydras.

[Lykos]

I get a quick forge and make a choke on the ramp using it and the gateway on the main entrance. make a few photon towers and that will keep roaches just camped outside the base.

Then i rush phoenixes - kill the overlords and economy harass. just remember to build ground defenses too, 3 immortals and some zealots should do fine.
The main thing is knowing how to handle the phoenixes, using them to kill the queens and such and retreating/ harassing another base/expansion if he sends more than a few hydras.

Or you could do phoenix stalker combos to gravity beam them into submission.

[Soli]

KILL IT WITH FIER!11

[Failoc]

Thanks for the great responses. I just got home and im going to try some of these

[Failoc]

I just tried this and I didn't win but I did survive about 5 times as long

[Anticks]

I just tech straight to colossi, while pumping out stalkers and a few immortals, and a few phoenixes in the back in case they go muta. Phoenixes aren't trash and will without a doubt slaughter a similarly sized army of mutas, especially if you have some support from stalkers. PvZ is honestly my easiest match up, as with 4-6 colossi, there's very little the opponent can do. You can easily burn gigantic zerg armies to the ground in seconds with a few colossi. One counter to this is broodlords, but a handful of voidrays will counter that as long as you steer clear of hydralisks.

[Sykomyke]

I just tech straight to colossi, while pumping out stalkers and a few immortals, and a few phoenixes in the back in case they go muta. Phoenixes aren't trash and will without a doubt slaughter a similarly sized army of mutas, especially if you have some support from stalkers. PvZ is honestly my easiest match up, as with 4-6 colossi, there's very little the opponent can do. You can easily burn gigantic zerg armies to the ground in seconds with a few colossi. One counter to this is broodlords, but a handful of voidrays will counter that as long as you steer clear of hydralisks.

While I agree with you there, if you manage to survive the first 2 minutes. I do have to pose a question.

Why would anyone get phoenixes early on for harassment? The voidray can harass much faster AND hit buildings. I realize the strengths of both, but for early harassment why would anyone ever focus on units with phoenixes. Buildings are a much harder liablity to defend against, and void rays excel at taking out buildings. I can see the bonus to early phoenix harassment versus overlords (choke his army), but honestly I can't see the real overall gain from this versus taking out tech structures/bases.

[Anticks]

While I agree with you there, if you manage to survive the first 2 minutes. I do have to pose a question.

Why would anyone get phoenixes early on for harassment? The voidray can harass much faster AND hit buildings. I realize the strengths of both, but for early harassment why would anyone ever focus on units with phoenixes. Buildings are a much harder liablity to defend against, and void rays excel at taking out buildings. I can see the bonus to early phoenix harassment versus overlords (choke his army), but honestly I can't see the real overall gain from this versus taking out tech structures/bases.



As far as harassment goes, Void Rays are indeed far superior. But Phoenixes will kill mutalisks, which are really my primary concern, I also flaunt them to basically tell my opponent "Hey, don't go air, I'm prepared to counter it" when I'd rather stay on the ground with my colossi.

[Terra]

Tech to Immortals.

ALWAYS.

They ALWAYS go Roach.

You don't even have to scout. They're NEVER going to deviate from those OP bastards.

[Sykomyke]

As far as harassment goes, Void Rays are indeed far superior. But Phoenixes will kill mutalisks, which are really my primary concern, I also flaunt them to basically tell my opponent "Hey, don't go air, I'm prepared to counter it" when I'd rather stay on the ground with my colossi.

I see the sense in essentially psyching out your opponent from going mass mutas. But what's preventing him from going corrupters to take out your air then brood lords to take out structures?

And despite the fact that phoenixes are nearly as fast as mutas, and based on equal numbers will take them out, a small amount of mutas can be countered by a compareable number of void rays. The problem with mutas isn't the fact they are an air unit, it's that allowing them to mass is what causes them to be powerful. The only way to counter them en masse, is to make stalkers/phoenixes en masse. In low numbers the void rays deal with them well enough, if not better then phoenixes. Am I not correct in that thinking?

[Shiladie]

Tech to Immortals.

ALWAYS.

They ALWAYS go Roach.

You don't even have to scout. They're NEVER going to deviate from those OP bastards.

I love you
you make my ZvP sooo easy...

[mike]

instead of talking about how the game should be, which wont fix the problem im having right now, can anyone tell me how they fight off the zerg early game (tier 1-1.5) I have the most difficulty surviving the initial wave of roaches. the zerg usually has about 6-8 roaches when i have about 4 zealots 1 sentry and 2 stalkers.
Watch some toss vs Zerg replays, look how they block off their ramp, with a cannon up there, and some stalkers you can make that chokehold bloody hard to break.

Then be the jerk to rush air, hit his base with 2 void rays, just have to make sure you keep overlords away from your stargate at all times>.< The plan is only solid as long as they aren't expecting the voids.

Its a very risky tactic, but you'll love it when it works.

[Anticks]

In low numbers the void rays deal with them well enough, if not better then phoenixes. Am I not correct in that thinking?

Possibly, but as you go on to say the real problem only comes when they get massed, so I prefer phoenixes to scare my opponent.

I see the sense in essentially psyching out your opponent from going mass mutas. But what's preventing him from going corrupters to take out your air then brood lords to take out structures?

I would definitely mass Void Rays at the mere thought of Broodlords coming into play. The whole process takes a while though, unlike Mutas which you can start massing pretty quickly. You can of course say that "Well you'll still be behind, so why not go Void Rays from the beginning if they counter Mutas almost as well?", but the Phoenixe's speed is really, really valuable as Mutas harassing your bases is no joke. You have to be able to be quick to save your workers and Nexuses, or at worst you'll lose the base and at best you'll save your base but let the Mutas escape. Flying back and forth between expansions and battlefields simply isn't possible without the speed of Phoenix. Well micro'd Mutas can be impossible to stop and absolutely devastating unless you're able to catch them.

[Anon]

instead of talking about how the game should be, which wont fix the problem im having right now, can anyone tell me how they fight off the zerg early game (tier 1-1.5) I have the most difficulty surviving the initial wave of roaches. the zerg usually has about 6-8 roaches when i have about 4 zealots 1 sentry and 2 stalkers.

1.Stay at your choke
2.Get 1 more sentry
3.Upgrade to warp gates A.S.A.P.
4.Make Robotics facility as soon as cybernetics is down
5.Upgrade choke with sentry force field,attack any roaches who pass through,DO NOT chase them or your zealots take big hits from the ramp choke.
6.Once Warp Gates and first immortal is down,attack before Air tech is researched by zerg.You don't really have any other options.