Zealots need a nerf!

[Resistance]

So I've started using a new strat where I build 20 probes/4 gateways/and pylons up to 66 or 74 unit max, in no particular order. I then mass about ~14 zealots and send them into the enemy base, while continually pumping out zealots with chronoboost.

So far I've won 90% of my games since starting this strat..... It's FARR better than a zergling rush when playing zerg. And when you rush, the enemy doesn't have the tech yet to counter or enough units to counter, unless they are a protoss doing the exact same strat.

So far my only Loss is when I sent all my zealots out and the other guy sent his units out to my base through a different route in the map. We ended up destroying each others base but he got a unit out to build somethng just in time.

So far I've yet to see a decent counter to it.

edit: Not even zerg who tried to amass a roach army have been able to defeat it as they just haven't had enough time to amass a decent quantity of roaches before I send mine in.

[Barcibus]

What happens when you get to the choke and you can only fight with about 2-3 Zealots? And then DT, Roaches, or MM show up?

[Thoraxe]

Originally posted by Resistance.res

So I've started using a new strat where I build 20 probes/4 gateways/and pylons up to 66 or 74 unit max, in no particular order. I then mass about ~14 zealots and send them into the enemy base, while continually pumping out zealots with chronoboost.

So far I've won 90% of my games since starting this strat..... It's FARR better than a zergling rush when playing zerg. And when you rush, the enemy doesn't have the tech yet to counter or enough units to counter, unless they are a protoss doing the exact same strat.

So far my only Loss is when I sent all my zealots out and the other guy sent his units out to my base through a different route in the map. We ended up destroying each others base but he got a unit out to build somethng just in time.

So far I've yet to see a decent counter to it.

edit: Not even zerg who tried to amass a roach army have been able to defeat it as they just haven't had enough time to amass a decent quantity of roaches before I send mine in.
1. That's pathetic, trying actually playing the game a little.
2. I don't blame you though cuz I would take free wins
3. 90% of how many games? Doesn't say a whole lot.
4. My roaches !@##d a Zealot rusher last game I played and he was even trying to cheese.

[Namhcir]

So I've started using a new strat where I build 20 probes/4 gateways/and pylons up to 66 or 74 unit max, in no particular order. I then mass about ~14 zealots and send them into the enemy base, while continually pumping out zealots with chronoboost.

So far I've won 90% of my games since starting this strat..... It's FARR better than a zergling rush when playing zerg. And when you rush, the enemy doesn't have the tech yet to counter or enough units to counter, unless they are a protoss doing the exact same strat.

So far my only Loss is when I sent all my zealots out and the other guy sent his units out to my base through a different route in the map. We ended up destroying each others base but he got a unit out to build somethng just in time.

So far I've yet to see a decent counter to it.

edit: Not even zerg who tried to amass a roach army have been able to defeat it as they just haven't had enough time to amass a decent quantity of roaches before I send mine in.

this strat sounds horrible, at a competent level you would lose every game :(

And btw, 1 roach > 10 zealots cause the roach is faster and ranged, so even if he has half as many roaches ur still gonna slowly lose ur zealots, ur best bet is to damage their drones and their economy if ur going all out, any good player wont lose a single roach to zealots untill charge, and is the exact reason so many toss qq's about em cause no1 knows how to make immortals apparently ;p

[Newcomplex]

lol I could beat that with 2 gateways and 4 zealots. Block choke and hold the line. Throw in one or two probes.

[Resistance]

What happens when you get to the choke and you can only fight with about 2-3 Zealots? And then DT, Roaches, or MM show up?

Faced a couple terrans going MM with blocking the choke and they just didn't have a big enough force behind the wall to take down the zealots before their blockade died. Roach army same as I stated in 1st post. Had a Protoss who tried using forcefield to block the choke, but he didn't have any range units and he didn't have any forcefields to keep it walled off.

[Resistance]

lol I could beat that with 2 gateways and 4 zealots. Block choke and hold the line. Throw in one or two probes.

lol..... right... stopping 14 zealots with 4? I'd like to see that. Haven't seen it done yet.

[Resistance]

this strat sounds horrible, at a competent level you would lose every game :(

And btw, 1 roach > 10 zealots cause the roach is faster and ranged, so even if he has half as many roaches ur still gonna slowly lose ur zealots, ur best bet is to damage their drones and their economy if ur going all out, any good player wont lose a single roach to zealots untill charge, and is the exact reason so many toss qq's about em cause no1 knows how to make immortals apparently ;p


1 roach may be greater than 10 zealots when microed well, however, you don't need 10 zealots to go after 1 roach... those other zealots can be destroyed his base..... So far about the time I rush, the zerg player only has roughly 5 roaches in play... which just isn't enough.

[magister]

Faced a couple terrans going MM with blocking the choke and they just didn't have a big enough force behind the wall to take down the zealots before their blockade died.


So they didn't even try to repair the wall with SCVs while you attacked?

[Tribe]

I know what the OP is talking about. I play as Zerg. I have played maybe 1 or 2 games as Terrian and Protoss, and over 300 as Zerg. I cant say that I know the build order or anything, but every now and then I face a Protoss player that is able to send Zealots at an alarming rate. They appear to have the rally point set at my base, and then just non-stop send in Zealots with Stalkers mixed in.

I do the ramp choke point block to prevent the Zealots from flooding into my base. I usually hold back the first big wave and put up a matched fight against the second. However, the relentless pace which the Protoss units are arriving at my base is greater then what I can produce. The Stalkers manage to break my choke point, and eventually, the Zealots are all over the base. Once the choke point falls, its over.

This is, with using a Single Hatchery with a Queen. If I expo and the Protoss does this, then I fall even faster since I do not have him matched in units and I gave up the chokepoint ramp option by expoing. I'll fall back to the choke point, and try to hold there, but I lose the expo and am further behind on units because of it. I have not tried beating this by making 2 or 3 Hatcheries in my main base, as some Zerg players will do, but I am usually producing units as fast as the minerals arrive anyway.

Once again, Protoss players who pull this tactic off are maybe 1 in 30. I've learned to hold out against it, until the Protoss changes tactics, but then when the Protoss doesnt change tactics, this strat rolls me.

[Askelus]

lol..... right... stopping 14 zealots with 4? I'd like to see that. Haven't seen it done yet.

I've fought off 16 with 6. This was in a 2v2 and I was attacked and I killed them all before my teammate arrived. You can maneuver the choke so you get to attack with 2-3 zealots while they can only hit with one, and I also had a sentry who could attack with a range and utilize the physic barrier. I don't play 1v1 much, just let my friends come over and play on it, but it doesn't seem like this strat would be all that successful.

Getting what you describe I would definitely have the ability to fight them off, because by the time you attack it can no longer even be called a rush. People who don't have enough MM or whatever to fend that off are a little sad. That being said, whatever works.

[Resistance]

So they didn't even try to repair the wall with SCVs while you attacked?

Unfortunately, they haven't been quick enough with the SCV's before one of the supply depots falls, If they had a scout that saw the force coming and then put the SCV's next to the buildings on the ready.... then perhaps they may be able to defend against this.

[Resistance]

I've fought off 16 with 6. This was in a 2v2 and I was attacked and I killed them all before my teammate arrived. You can maneuver the choke so you get to attack with 2-3 zealots while they can only hit with one, and I also had a sentry who could attack with a range and utilize the physic barrier. I don't play 1v1 much, just let my friends come over and play on it, but it doesn't seem like this strat would be all that successful.

Getting what you describe I would definitely have the ability to fight them off, because by the time you attack it can no longer even be called a rush. People who don't have enough MM or whatever to fend that off are a little sad. That being said, whatever works.

Even if you only fight 1 at a time, it's still 1v1 zealots, yours are going to go down. Also, the rush happens faster than a Zerg roach rush, that's one thing I think you are underestimating.

[Misty]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Replay or it didn't happen.

[Pavel]

So I've started using a new strat where I build 20 probes/4 gateways/and pylons up to 66 or 74 unit max, in no particular order. I then mass about ~14 zealots and send them into the enemy base, while continually pumping out zealots with chronoboost.

So far I've won 90% of my games since starting this strat..... It's FARR better than a zergling rush when playing zerg. And when you rush, the enemy doesn't have the tech yet to counter or enough units to counter, unless they are a protoss doing the exact same strat.

So far my only Loss is when I sent all my zealots out and the other guy sent his units out to my base through a different route in the map. We ended up destroying each others base but he got a unit out to build somethng just in time.

So far I've yet to see a decent counter to it.

edit: Not even zerg who tried to amass a roach army have been able to defeat it as they just haven't had enough time to amass a decent quantity of roaches before I send mine in.

just out of curiosity what rank are you

[Neberus]

So I've started using a new strat where I build 20 probes/4 gateways/and pylons up to 66 or 74 unit max, in no particular order. I then mass about ~14 zealots and send them into the enemy base, while continually pumping out zealots with chronoboost.

So far I've won 90% of my games since starting this strat..... It's FARR better than a zergling rush when playing zerg. And when you rush, the enemy doesn't have the tech yet to counter or enough units to counter, unless they are a protoss doing the exact same strat.

So far my only Loss is when I sent all my zealots out and the other guy sent his units out to my base through a different route in the map. We ended up destroying each others base but he got a unit out to build somethng just in time.

So far I've yet to see a decent counter to it.

edit: Not even zerg who tried to amass a roach army have been able to defeat it as they just haven't had enough time to amass a decent quantity of roaches before I send mine in.

they are fine, im no protoss player, but i think they need help with the charge upgrade 200/200 its to expensive, and they need this upgrade vs terrans alot

[Huma]

zealots are op?

I will take zealots over lings or marines anyday as a terran, kite all motha #%%*in day.

[Wingless]

Zealots are fine. I wish the proxy pylon didn't exist but you should be able to catch it and its fine to I guess.

[micro]

One thing I do now when playing Toss I always macro a couple scv at the beginning that way I can send the over instantly to repair. At that point my marines will take care of the rest.

[magister]

Ya.. I don't play Terran alot yet, but I was thinking the same thing. Put 2-3 on a hotkey at the start for quick access.

[Crisischild]

So I've started using a new strat where I build 20 probes/4 gateways/and pylons up to 66 or 74 unit max, in no particular order. I then mass about ~14 zealots and send them into the enemy base, while continually pumping out zealots with chronoboost.



The amount of time and resources this would take would make it impossible for you to kill an opponent who's awake.


Someone's mad they got Zrushed while they were teching instead of scouting.

[Wyvern]

Let me guess. Copper league, right? Sorry, but there's no way that this strategy would work against a halfway decent player.

Against a Terran, their choke will be walled off, and a small handful of Marines will kill off your attack force before they even break through. If you're actually going to take down a supply depot, they just repair it. Having wiped out your army with no casualties, they build a few more Marines and Marauders and counterattack. Whatever Zealots you produce are helpless before their ranged attacks. You lose.

Against Zerg, they just mass Roaches while you mass Zealots. Roaches trounce Zealots one for one because their 2 armor takes off 4 damage per attack, and their ranged attack lets them focus down the Zealots while taking very spread-out damage in return. Also, they can kite somewhat. The Zerg player beats you without even trying.

Against another Protoss, they just put like four Zealots on their ramp on Hold Position and use the rest of their resources on a mix of Stalkers and Sentries. 80% of your army wanders around worthlessly at any given time because of the choke point. While the 2-3 in front slowly whittle down the other player's defending Zealots, their Stalkers and Sentries focus them down very quickly. The enemy suffers minimal losses and counterattacks. You lose.

You can't even take them by surprise because with no ranged unit, the worker they send to scout will be in your base for like five minutes while your Zealots try in vain to catch it. They know you don't have a Cybernetics Core and know build specifically to counter Zealots.

[Chang]

OP is bad and he should feel bad.

Sorry, getting 66 worth of food in zealots isn't a rush and can easily be countered by roaches with some micro. Plus the zerg player needs only to spend half the food.

If i scouted you and saw 3 gateways, would imagine many zealots, so i'd just !%%! you over with roaches and even earlier before u can pump zealots since you decided to spend money on building so many gateways.

Etc etc you're bad

[Resistance]

OP is bad and he should feel bad.

Sorry, getting 66 worth of food in zealots isn't a rush and can easily be countered by roaches with some micro. Plus the zerg player needs only to spend half the food.

If i scouted you and saw 3 gateways, would imagine many zealots, so i'd just !%%! you over with roaches and even earlier before u can pump zealots since you decided to spend money on building so many gateways.

Etc etc you're bad

I create 1 gateway early to keep a couple zealots to prevent scouting..... and I don't rush when I have 66 unis worth of food... I rush earlier than that... it's just to give me to some headroom so I can continue building zealots while the rest of the force is attacking. Again the zealot rush is faster than a roach rush, so you just wouldn't be able to keep amass enough of them in time.

You guys can theorize how to beat it all you want, but in actual gameplay, if done right, you will win a lot, try it for yourselves instead of just theorizing on it.

[Chang]

I create 1 gateway early to keep a couple zealots to prevent scouting..... and I don't rush when I have 66 unis worth of food... I rush earlier than that... it's just to give me to some headroom so I can continue building zealots while the rest of the force is attacking. Again the zealot rush is faster than a roach rush, so you just wouldn't be able to keep amass enough of them in time.

You guys can theorize how to beat it all you want, but in actual gameplay, if done right, you will win a lot, try it for yourselves instead of just theorizing on it.

When does said player scout, when they have 18 food? You're not going to prevent anyone from scouting. All workers outrun zealots, so if someone has good micro, he can keep scouting you forever. Zerg can even just hover an overlord if you don't have a stalker. And sure, you can attack maybe with 1-2 zealot before he has any roaches, but that's not going to cut it. Some 6-8 zerglings will take care of that, if not, queen + drones. When you have 4-5 zealots and are "rushing" he already will probably have roaches.

[Teamchuckles]

I agree lets nerf the worst tier 1 units in the game (without charge)

[Chang]

I agree lets nerf the worst tier 1 units in the game (without charge)

... Not really. Zealots are pretty strong against marine and zerglings.

[Nasdrova]

... Not really. Zealots are pretty strong against marine and zerglings.

Only if they get in melee range of the zerglings or marines. Zerglings are much faster and marines can just kite if done right.

As a few people above mentioned, I agree the strategy from the OP isn't really that hard to beat with a decent choke point at your base. However not everyone knows how to do this well, especially at the lower league levels so it's not unreasonable to assume it has worked for him so far.

In fact, it actually has some potential as a decent strategy against zerg, assuming you can get your 14 zealots in there before he can get enough roaches to tear them up.

I really don't feel like zealots are imbalanced in any way. They are tough, slow, high damage units with 0 range and no air attack.

I can think of at least 5-6 other units from other races that would be higher priority to modify....but I won't go into those.

[Suicidemech]

So I've started using a new strat where I build 20 probes/4 gateways/and pylons up to 66 or 74 unit max, in no particular order. I then mass about ~14 zealots and send them into the enemy base, while continually pumping out zealots with chronoboost.

So far I've won 90% of my games since starting this strat..... It's FARR better than a zergling rush when playing zerg. And when you rush, the enemy doesn't have the tech yet to counter or enough units to counter, unless they are a protoss doing the exact same strat.

So far my only Loss is when I sent all my zealots out and the other guy sent his units out to my base through a different route in the map. We ended up destroying each others base but he got a unit out to build somethng just in time.

So far I've yet to see a decent counter to it.

edit: Not even zerg who tried to amass a roach army have been able to defeat it as they just haven't had enough time to amass a decent quantity of roaches before I send mine in.

How come i never play against people like you, but when I'm in need of a team mate you end up on my team?

[Nephrahim]

While the OP has no point, Zelots ARE helluva powerful, I found.

A dedicated Zelot rush, with crono boosted Proxy gates can MESS YOU UP.

[Heero]

so can a roach rush, or an M&M rush. Its all about how much risk you take in teching early or building more dudes early.

[JamesRaynor]

Zealots just got a nerf to their build time! Can read about it on my StarCraft 2 (http://starcraft-2-strategy.net) site.

[NoU]

Zealots got nerfed for the Protoss race? Need Starcraft 2 cheats (http://starcraft2guidebase.com/starcraft-2-cheats)?

[Gracken]

Zealots did indeed get nerfed. Don't fret though, take a look at this: StarCraft 2 Guide (http://www.beststarcraft2guide.net)