Zerg post up your build order for ZvP

[Finalflight]

Hey, I have been playing alot of ZvP and I cant seem to get the win. I usually tech a couple of seconds to late or are am barely able to hold off the rush but am now confined to my base.

As I was making romen noodles I kept thinking about what I was doing wrong and the only thing I could think of is getting my pool alittle to late.

My usual build order is
4 drones
1 overlord
3 drones
Pool
3 drones
Extracter
Drone
Overlord
Queen
Then depending what the other player is going Ill go Either Roaches or mut's/Ultralisks

With Roaches Im able to hold off against the Zealots but when he adds both Zealots and Stalkers together I fall behind. If I try to tech to mut's/ultra's it is too late because I dont have enough defence against the Stalkers.

So rather then just tell me LOL You are doing THIS wrong only. Post up some idea and your build order. Telling me to go Ultralisks doesn't really give me a good idea of how fast I should be pacing myself off the start.

[Draguzul]

I prefer to rush to air - mutalisks. So I build 10 drones, I use the 10th drone to build the pool, then build another drone to collect minerals.

I build an overlord.

I build another drone -turn that into a gas extractor, start building another one

the pool comes up. I spawn zerglings at this point, 5 batches = 10 lings

At the same time, the drone should come up and I build the Roach Warren.

I then build another drone. Get the other gas extractor online

Get that running, 2 drones per extractor and 2 overlords.

I also get a queen at this point if I can.

Start spawning Roaches - I usually go with 8

Stack the roaches and the lings on the choke.

Upgrade your hatchery into a lair

Build another hatchery

Build the Spire after the lair comes up

Build the hydralisk den

I then half my forces - mutalisk/hydralisk and then I scout to see whats incoming if I haven't found out already.

I recommend scouting as much as possible to build a counter to whatever is coming - usually hydralisks can handle anything mid-game. Mutalisks are fun for harrassing enemy units and expansions. With zerg, keep mobile and understand the best defense is keeping the enemy on defense(offense lol)

[Finalflight]

He REALLY likes going Immoral/colossus for mid game to counter my roaches. I figure that by the time he has 1-2 immortals I should almost have up my Mut's going.

BTW The way you posted was EXACTLY what I was looking for. Prolly the most helpful post I've had so far =)

Build orders on Ling rushes or fast expo are also very nice to know. I know the game is all about countering what your enemy is doing so when I scout him it would be nice to know how to do the other builds as well. I played a decent amount of WC3 so to me starcraft is a pretty different game.

MOAR build order for other strats!

[Draguzul]

He REALLY likes going Immoral/colossus for mid game to counter my roaches. I figure that by the time he has 1-2 immortals I should almost have up my Mut's going.

BTW The way you posted was EXACTLY what I was looking for. Prolly the most helpful post I've had so far =)

I don't use my roaches for offense. I use them primarily to stand around and look like a detterrent. Also I didn't discuss end game - depending, switch it up with corruptors to take out carriers and motherships, or turn them in Brood Lords for massive chaos on the ground. Just need to react to whats going on and keep a solid hydralisk base as they are tough to chew through.

Also of note - try and do some research, as far as range for your hydralisk and damage, as well as air damage when you've got the resources. Its important to scout and harrass Protoss players - if you mess with their economy and blow up their army in bits while doing it, you can run them straight out of the game through the economy.

Edit - you can use my build for a lings rush - you should have your spawning pool up in 2 minutes and your first batch of lings shortly after - I've won a game in just over 3 minutes. But I'm here to test, not to win games. And its easy enough to counter a ling rush - with that setup, you'll also get roaches and can just build a dozen roaches real easy - may even want to build the second hatchery sooner to pump out more roaches. Plenty of ways to adapt my build order.

[Finalflight]

One of the things that I need to work on is my micro as well. He is in the platinum league while I am in silver. I figure the only way I'm going to get better is to play him to learn against Protoss. He really doesn't ever go air. He just loves to mass Stalkers then move into Immortals. If he see's me going Mut's he just spams photon cannons.


Any types of build orders to counter reapers or anything is helpful.
It would be nice to have this post be a ZvP thread for new players. Telling people to do something is helpful but giving them instructions on HOW to do it and what order is even better.

[Eyelessone]

My build order is usually:
Drone - To cap (10/10)
Overlord
Drone
Drone
Spawning pool
Queen
Extractor
Roach Warren
Lair

So far it's been going well for me, moved up about 30 ranks in the last few hours. (Gold, 37th from 76th)

EDIT: To the person above, Zerglings with the speed upgrades (massed of course) are very nice at tackling stalkers, they move too fast for the enemy to micro around unless upgraded with blink, and even then it's still close. You can even surround single stalkers separating them from the pack, and make quick work of it. Now, if he's smart and brings some zealots along, Roaches are a nice counter to that. IF you have a good balance of units you'll make the Protoss player a little worried.

[Draguzul]

Stalkers? Hydralisk
Immortals? Hrydralisk.

You can substitute air for hydralisk and actually get more quicker. I'd also note, I paired hydralisk and roaches together vs a ground heavy protoss and it worked quite well. You may want to give it a try.

[Mentlegen]

One of the things that I need to work on is my micro as well. He is in the platinum league while I am in silver. I figure the only way I'm going to get better is to play him to learn against Protoss. He really doesn't ever go air. He just loves to mass Stalkers then move into Immortals. If he see's me going Mut's he just spams photon cannons.


Any types of build orders to counter reapers or anything is helpful.
It would be nice to have this post be a ZvP thread for new players. Telling people to do something is helpful but giving them instructions on HOW to do it and what order is even better.

I may only be in silver league myself but roaches with burrow researched counter reapers pretty well as roaches are pretty anti-hit and run tactic unit. It helps i'm pretty good at microing them to keep most of them alive. I've had groups of roaches kill zealots and stalkers without me losing even one. My macro is terrible though >.<.

[Ghozt]

Hey, I have been playing alot of ZvP and I cant seem to get the win. I usually tech a couple of seconds to late or are am barely able to hold off the rush but am now confined to my base.

As I was making romen noodles I kept thinking about what I was doing wrong and the only thing I could think of is getting my pool alittle to late.

My usual build order is
4 drones
1 overlord
3 drones
Pool
3 drones
Extracter
Drone
Overlord
Queen
Then depending what the other player is going Ill go Either Roaches or mut's/Ultralisks

With Roaches Im able to hold off against the Zealots but when he adds both Zealots and Stalkers together I fall behind. If I try to tech to mut's/ultra's it is too late because I dont have enough defence against the Stalkers.

So rather then just tell me LOL You are doing THIS wrong only. Post up some idea and your build order. Telling me to go Ultralisks doesn't really give me a good idea of how fast I should be pacing myself off the start.

Yeah I found that starting build order out awhile ago and it works really well, sets you up for pretty much everything, too.

[Finalflight]

Yea I really dont seem to use Hydralisks alot. Now thinking of it they would be an amazing counter.

Also, Is it just me or does it seem like Banelings are pretty worthless against Protoss. Sending in 5 banelings takes down their shield is decent. But any half decent player will just space them apart. Maybe having 2 buttons for Banelings. 1 to have all selected banelings explode and have 1 so you can have them explode one at a time?

[Draguzul]

Yea I really dont seem to use Hydralisks alot. Now thinking of it they would be an amazing counter.

Also, Is it just me or does it seem like Banelings are pretty worthless against Protoss. Sending in 5 banelings takes down their shield is decent. But any half decent player will just space them apart. Maybe having 2 buttons for Banelings. 1 to have all them selected explode and have 1 so you can have them explode one at a time when they are close enough?

I've used banelings with mixed results. I prefer to use them against Terran as they don't seem to do a whole lot against Protoss. One thing you can do with them if you've got the time, load them up into your Overlords, sneak around an enemy, drop them in the resource field and they'll blow up plenty then.

[Ghozt]

I've used banelings with mixed results. I prefer to use them against Terran as they don't seem to do a whole lot against Protoss. One thing you can do with them if you've got the time, load them up into your Overlords, sneak around an enemy, drop them in the resource field and they'll blow up plenty then.

So basically the new Infested Terran drop, eh?

[Draguzul]

So basically the new Infested Terran drop, eh?

Pretty much, its hilarious to watch as they all dissolve in acid rofl

[Finalflight]

Yea, It seems like banelings are too much of a risk. Im pretty use they are meant to be a Tier 1.5-Tier 2 unit but Vs a protoss colossus they get eaten. If you try to use banelings in the early/mid game they can be easily countered and trying to set up for them makes you pretty weak. I do like the idea of an overlord drop with them though.

Keep the idea's, build orders and strats flowing!

[Ghozt]

Pretty much, its hilarious to watch as they all dissolve in acid rofl

Lol the first time I saw a DT killing a marine I was like... "SWEET!" Except a few minutes later I was raped. The bloody thing cut my marine clean in half!

[Eyelessone]

...Oh man... A nydus worm full of banelings... What fun could that conjure up...

[Rurikar]

Drone
Drone
Drone
Drone
Overlord
Spawnpool
Drone until Spawnpool finished
Queen
3 to 4 towers

Rest depends on the game but towers are key to any early game rush and make sure you use your queen to spore colony. I don't see any zerg doing this and franky it's just bad play as it's a huge part of map control.

[Draguzul]

...Oh man... A nydus worm full of banelings... What fun could that conjure up...

Now there is something to try out. I need to use those worms more often. I'll have to get a vid of that up.

[Ghozt]

Actually, just noticed my build is a little bit different than the OP's >.>

Drone x4
Overlord
Pool
Extractor x2 (with 2 drones on each as soon as it finishes)
Drone x4 set to minerals
2x Evolution Chamber
Upgrades
Lings
Hatch

Else it depends on the game.

[Finalflight]

When you say Hatch do you mean going for your natural expo or just a second hatchery with your main for more units and have your queen just spit on both for extra larva?

[Ghozt]

When you say Hatch do you mean going for your natural expo or just a second hatchery with your main for more units and have your queen just spit on both for extra larva?

Doesn't matter - sometimes I'll go for my natural expo and other times I'll just create a new hatch in my base for heightened unit production in conjunction with my Queen's spawn larva ability. And I usually get a queen just after my upgrades.

[Finalflight]

Protoss player here....

This is how the games I play work out mostly.

I open up with roughly 3 zealots. Depending on what he gets and his tech (mostly watching out for banelings).

After 3 zealots I'll switch to stalkers and grab 2 stalkers. I find if my back is against the wall I can just call up my cliff choke and he can't end the game.

At this point in the game if my ally is playing a zerg which is pretty standard (Lings, Roaches and possibly a few banelings) then I'll keep teching to Immortals.

I usually have a ~1 minute period where I might have trouble getting my immortal out.

Once I get my immortal out it is going to be bad times for the zerg so if you're a zerg player and you see a protoss with a healthy army and 1 Immortal, don't fight. I LOVE to fight a zerg when we each have low armies and I have an immortal.

If you see this early immortal you can do a few things

1) Roaches burrowed and harass my mineral line to keep me pinned in my base or at least till I get an observer or build cannons (every second I'm in my base is a good thing)

2) build extra zerglings. To zerg players who are getting rolled by Immortals, MASS ZERGLINGS > MASS IMMORTALS.

3) Burrow banelings and as I take aggression, you unburrow and blow up on my units THAT COUNT IE: Immortals. I don't like this method because it takes a lot of banelings to actually blow up an immortal, opetion 1 or 2 is better.

If You keep me pinned in my base you want to expand if you have not already.

So at this point in the game it is an immortal game where you can't let the Protoss load up on Immortals or you lose.

If you are massing lings to counter the immortals the protoss will then open up with a colossus. If you see a protoss army with 1+ Colussos and 2+ immortals odds are you're going to lose. If I were a zerg player in this situation I'd try 'n gun a few mutas and harass the workers and D up with whatever expo he will hit. Bring your queen and fight with crawlers and fight on creep, remember to get every adv as you possibly can.

Also, if you're going to FE (fast expand) make sure you get your queen involved in your expo and lay down 2 spine crawlers and I literally can't push the expo till late game.

I'm a Protoss player in 2 platinum leagues and I consider myself a competitive RTS player so I'm not just a walk on scrub.

With this being said, tell me what you guys think and why other problems you guys are running into

And In comes my friend who I am posting about hoping he wouldn't see my post >.<

Hate you Tiki

[Draguzul]

Protoss player here....

This is how the games I play work out mostly.

I open up with roughly 3 zealots. Depending on what he gets and his tech (mostly watching out for banelings).

After 3 zealots I'll switch to stalkers and grab 2 stalkers. I find if my back is against the wall I can just call up my cliff choke and he can't end the game.

At this point in the game if my ally is playing a zerg which is pretty standard (Lings, Roaches and possibly a few banelings) then I'll keep teching to Immortals.

I usually have a ~1 minute period where I might have trouble getting my immortal out.

Once I get my immortal out it is going to be bad times for the zerg so if you're a zerg player and you see a protoss with a healthy army and 1 Immortal, don't fight. I LOVE to fight a zerg when we each have low armies and I have an immortal.

If you see this early immortal you can do a few things

1) Roaches burrowed and harass my mineral line to keep me pinned in my base or at least till I get an observer or build cannons (every second I'm in my base is a good thing)

2) build extra zerglings. To zerg players who are getting rolled by Immortals, MASS ZERGLINGS > MASS IMMORTALS.

3) Burrow banelings and as I take aggression, you unburrow and blow up on my units THAT COUNT IE: Immortals. I don't like this method because it takes a lot of banelings to actually blow up an immortal, opetion 1 or 2 is better.

If You keep me pinned in my base you want to expand if you have not already.

So at this point in the game it is an immortal game where you can't let the Protoss load up on Immortals or you lose.

If you are massing lings to counter the immortals the protoss will then open up with a colossus. If you see a protoss army with 1+ Colussos and 2+ immortals odds are you're going to lose. If I were a zerg player in this situation I'd try 'n gun a few mutas and harass the workers and D up with whatever expo he will hit. Bring your queen and fight with crawlers and fight on creep, remember to get every adv as you possibly can.

Also, if you're going to FE (fast expand) make sure you get your queen involved in your expo and lay down 2 spine crawlers and I literally can't push the expo till late game.

I'm a Protoss player in 2 platinum leagues and I consider myself a competitive RTS player so I'm not just a walk on scrub.

With this being said, tell me what you guys think and why other problems you guys are running into

While you bring up some valid points and I'm not expert, nor am I pro or competitive or anything really. I'm lame for the most part. But everytime I've gone up against the immortal/colossus combo - I've walked away as the victor. Number one: Mutalisks number two: hydralisks and zerglings to cause confusion. I'll also throw in roaches if I get scared - but generally I focus fire those colossus down, they wittle away in seconds - the immortals are not immortal thankfully and go down quite easy. By this time, I can also be playing with Brood Lords - which adds even more flavor to the equation.

I do agree though, keeping a Protoss player in their base for as long as possible, is the key to winning. Boils down to economy fights - mind you, this is coming from someone who is still having trouble dealing with mothership/carrier spam - corruptors do all right, but its not the solution I was hoping for.

[Finalflight]

Honestly it seems like at the moment this isn't much zerg can do late game against protoss. You have to be harrassing him the whole time and not let him get to carriers + Mothership. If he has the means to make that and keep you from winning you prolly shouldn't be able to win.

[Snuglebear]

To the OP:

All im going to say is your open to an early game rush.

[MCoalniocnh]

Hi

My build order
Max drones (10/10)
Overlord
Drones
when overlord pops, spawn
2xExtractor with 2 drones each
When spawn pops queen
lings to tease the enemy a little, keep him occupied
towers
As soon as the queen pops i go lair, and as soon as this pops i go hydralisk den + nydus worm.
Then depending on what your opponent is doing, maybe your mate is keeping him from attacking (as in Twillight Fortress) counter him, and mass hydras into the nydus, get an overlord to a corner of his base and release the lethal weapon.
This probably only works when gaming 2v2 which i'm am doing a lot, and against players who use their eyes, you need some kind of distraction when spawning the nydus - maybe ur m8 got some void rays or something - also a good thing to spawn two nydus worms, and only unload a couple one place, to get ur enemies distracted from the real danger.

[warlord_7]

Nydus takes often too long and it's not so flexible. It's useful on large maps but not like Blistering Sands.. it's also not practicable in every match (depending on your opponent).

[shakinthed]

K I need help on defeating a Protoss player, I'm still a noob.

Right when I get my 4 lings, he has his Photon cannons around his base and I can't harrass/atk his Probes because my lings die too fast. Then he masses cannons, I could go mass Roaches but he usually has a Void Ray or air unit by now, if I go make Mutalisks right after I get HIVE he usually has about around 3-5 air units.

Can you gimme some tips and build order to attack early against a turtler/air atkers?

also some ways to control lings when engage in a medium sized battle..

my late game sucks and id like to beat my opponent early/mid.. thanks
i can beat a terran early/mid but i cant beat protoss for some reason..


also idk if going multalisks will help since they usually have around 6-10 photon cannons by then surrounding their base making it impossible to kill all of them using 3-6 multas early/mid..
maybe im just that bad but please help me out