A suggestion to those getting stalemated vs T

[Mononaut]

I've been reading threads too frequently about stalemates against terran, where you don't have enough minerals to advance, but all they have is a lifted CC...

Here's a suggestion: just leave the damn game. In that case, there's really no clear winner anyways, so it doesn't matter who gets the win. It might have some minimal impact on your rank, but this is beta, and it doesn't matter. We're here to play the game, and that hour and a half of stubbornness could be used to play many more games, which could offset the rank lossage from the surrender.

You're giving the terran what he wants, sure, but again, it doesn't matter right now. I'm confident that there will be some draw condition implemented by the time we hit retail, since the ladder is an integral part of the game and stalemates do happen.

[Joneleth]

Make Lift-Off an optional Research or require Energy.

Once Energy runs out the structure plummets and is destroyed.

or finds a safe place to land on its own.

[Mononaut]

Make Lift-Off an optional Research or require Energy.

Once Energy runs out the structure plummets and is destroyed.

or finds a safe place to land on its own.

Did you even read my post?

[Joneleth]

Did you even read my post?No. I look for any excuse to vent my seething hatred for inherent Lift-Off which is the root of all evil, including stalemates like those and the scarcity of good "island" maps.

[Tiamazzo]

Why should Terran get the stalemate option and nobody else?

[Mononaut]

Why should Terran get the stalemate option and nobody else?

I can't think of any other situation in which a stalemate would happen, and this isn't exactly a new problem. Buildings could lift off in SC1 from the very beginning, AFAIK. Like I said, if you've lost your base and don't have enough cash to build anything, there's no clear winner anyways.

[Inoob]

I've been reading threads too frequently about stalemates against terran, where you don't have enough minerals to advance, but all they have is a lifted CC...

Here's a suggestion: just leave the damn game. In that case, there's really no clear winner anyways, so it doesn't matter who gets the win. It might have some minimal impact on your rank, but this is beta, and it doesn't matter. We're here to play the game, and that hour and a half of stubbornness could be used to play many more games, which could offset the rank lossage from the surrender.

You're giving the terran what he wants, sure, but again, it doesn't matter right now. I'm confident that there will be some draw condition implemented by the time we hit retail, since the ladder is an integral part of the game and stalemates do happen.

maybe a few conditions could be made, with a timer, so that if nobody builds a unit for x amount of time ( or has no more left to build.. doesnt build.. and sits there ...., it just results in a tie.. or it gives the win to the person with the better score.?!

[Exodu]

How can you say you "won" a game if you can't even produce a single unit that can attack a floating building?

It seems to me that if the terran player managed to render you incapable of doing anything about his floating building, (i.e. Killed all of your "town halls" and workers.) then the game IS a draw?

I'd say win the game cleanly and you won't have to worry about this. If you are so paranoid of the terran stalemate, make a point to store 1 muta / phoenix / viking off in the corner of the map somewhere at some point during your game.

In general though, I find this argument akin to complaining that someone squashed all your zealots with 1 mutalisk. AIR UNITS ARE OVERPOWERED. FLYING SHOULD BE A RESEARCH FOR AIR UNITS.

[Wobahs]

Better idea: Destroy his darn Command Center. It isn't hard. Tech up to air, find it, and blow it up.

[Idkanything]

Liftoff gives terran the option to "all in" basically they know they're toast so they throw every last bit of assault they have at you to try to take you out.

Just learn that as a toss/zerg player you don't have the same "all in" flexibility and if its a "race" to base smash - you need to go defend your own instead of trying to finish off theirs. Once people learn this they'll stop whining about flying buildings (which are really no issue) and focus instead on a more defensive mindset when it comes to their own base.

Plus - its only beta; I wouldn't really care too terribly about your ranking :-P so if you get stalemated just leave so you can go play some more.

[Yaz]

Exodu & Wobahs are 100% correct. You haven't won if you can't destroy him and don't deserve a free win. Next time guard your base rather than just throwing your army into his base blindly. Neither person in a case like this has won, both have really lost. If anything both should get loses and game should end as you've both allowed yourselves to be crippled.

[Mononaut]

Exodu & Wobahs are 100% correct.
Hey now, let's not forget who started this thread. :P

Seriously though, I'm glad to see that other people share my reasoning. I've never had a stalemate against terran, and honestly I don't understand how you guys get yourself into these situations... It really shouldn't happen.

Now, if a terran lifts off to save his ass and I'm still standing, that's a different story. Most of the time this happens, he'll just GG and we'll both be on our merry way, because he knows he's lost. I might just have to drag out the game long enough to tech air and perform my /FATALITY. If he destroyed you're entire base while you were attacking him with ground units, then... well, QED, you both lost.

[Messana]

Make Lift-Off an optional Research or require Energy.

Once Energy runs out the structure plummets and is destroyed.

or finds a safe place to land on its own.
Don't let the terran destroy your god damn base and your workers.

This is not rocket science.

[Kralic]

Don't let the terran destroy your god damn base and your workers.

This is not rocket science.

I see what you did there.

[Mut]

I can't think of any other situation in which a stalemate would happen, and this isn't exactly a new problem. Buildings could lift off in SC1 from the very beginning, AFAIK. Like I said, if you've lost your base and don't have enough cash to build anything, there's no clear winner anyways.

There is a clear winner. One team has a standing army fully capable of destroying buildings.
The other team has a single building floating in space, that is alive because of a game mechanic that was not meant to be used this way.

I only play terran, but i'm fully on board with a solution to this problem. Give buildings 5 minutes of flight time that fully refills in like 30 seconds of time on land.

[Dreuel]

There is a clear winner. One team has a standing army fully capable of destroying buildings

And no resources, no workers, and no way to build anything else (at least in a true stalemate situation.)

It's a draw. Just need a draw timer -- no resources collected or spent, no combat for 5 minutes -> no winner.

[Yaji]

Make Lift-Off an optional Research or require Energy.

Once Energy runs out the structure plummets and is destroyed.

or finds a safe place to land on its own.

Boo... How often do you find yourself unable to make a single air unit?

[Barcibus]

I've been reading threads too frequently about stalemates against terran, where you don't have enough minerals to advance, but all they have is a lifted CC...

Here's a suggestion: just leave the damn game. In that case, there's really no clear winner anyways, so it doesn't matter who gets the win. It might have some minimal impact on your rank, but this is beta, and it doesn't matter. We're here to play the game, and that hour and a half of stubbornness could be used to play many more games, which could offset the rank lossage from the surrender.

You're giving the terran what he wants, sure, but again, it doesn't matter right now. I'm confident that there will be some draw condition implemented by the time we hit retail, since the ladder is an integral part of the game and stalemates do happen.
I would think BETA is the time to make a fuss about these sorts of things, not later when everything's supposed to be set.

[Tehschoolbus]

You're giving the terran what he wants, sure, but again, it doesn't matter right now. I'm confident that there will be some draw condition implemented by the time we hit retail, since the ladder is an integral part of the game and stalemates do happen.
+over 9,000 for the truth. In continuation, your stats will likely be reset before release anyways, as you will be purchasing a different CD-KEY that will be linked to a different character in-game (if not for other reasons). So instead of waiting around for hours for them to leave and you to win, just pretend like the game didn't happen and play some more. There's already been TONS of posts about terran lift-off stalemates, at least 1 must have been read by a blue so don't worry about a draw functionality not being implemented cause this situation will likely be addressed.

[Ahnteis]

I can't think of any other situation in which a stalemate would happen, and this isn't exactly a new problem. Buildings could lift off in SC1 from the very beginning, AFAIK. Like I said, if you've lost your base and don't have enough cash to build anything, there's no clear winner anyways.

Small army army due to huge battle. No more resources on map. Nothing that can outrange turtled defense. Both teams.

It happens. It's a flaw in the resource model but it doesn't show up often.

[Strimen]

I can't think of any other situation in which a stalemate would happen, and this isn't exactly a new problem. Buildings could lift off in SC1 from the very beginning, AFAIK. Like I said, if you've lost your base and don't have enough cash to build anything, there's no clear winner anyways.

I had a stalemate the other day in PvP. As both our armies were destroying each others base in a race we ended up losing all production means. Yet both of us ended up losing our attacking forces due to scattered cannons around the map and so we were stuck with probes/pylons and cannons in the end. A true stalemate. Funny as heck too.

[Thebaron]

The simple solution to all this nonsense:

STOP BASE TRADING AGAINST TERRAN.

[Divine]

I can't think of any other situation in which a stalemate would happen, and this isn't exactly a new problem. Buildings could lift off in SC1 from the very beginning, AFAIK. Like I said, if you've lost your base and don't have enough cash to build anything, there's no clear winner anyways.

you obviously haven't seen stalemates in starcraft 1..

there's been a very few cases where both players have depleted all the resources in the game while duking it out.. very often games can get close to that but not quite... but I've seen where one guy was sort of losing and by the time both of them used all their resources, he turtled up in his base with dark archons (mind control), archons and dragoons...

the other guy tried to wear him down but his carriers keep using mineral and gets taken away by mind control.. so the judges declared it a stalemate draw..

That's a stalemate.. not your noob base exchange... "I went all in too while terran did so I don't have probes/base... "

Oh and technically when it comes to that.. I blame both of you.. it's not just terran's fault that he floats away.. although bad mannered, not an abuse of game mechanics...

[Kraal]

And no resources, no workers, and no way to build anything else (at least in a true stalemate situation.)

It's a draw. Just need a draw timer -- no resources collected or spent, no combat for 5 minutes -> no winner.
THIS. Regardless of having an army, if neither side can win through any further actions available to them, it's a stalemate. Yes, terran has more likelyhood to be able to push for a stalemate, but it's equally the opposing player's fault for not having a winning strategy that accounts for their opponents abilities (keep 1 air unit in reserve)

[Zasz]

Yeah the crying about this particular issue is out of control. It's not hard to:

a) Have an air unit somewhere secluded if you get this pissed off about Lift-Off.

b) Save one (1) worker to rebuild.

c) DEFEND YOUR BASE, at least that way you either lose the game or defeat his force and push him back (and *gasp* be able to keep getting resources to get air if he decides to draw it out by lifting off).