Hotkey familiarity

[Lorenz]

Would it be possible to group similar hotkeys for the 3 races so that the same hotkey is used for multiple races for the same purpose?

Example:
Hotkey "A"
build Assimilator
build Extractor
build Refinery (hotkey = A)

Hotkey "E"
Build Engineering bay
Build Evolution chamber
Build Forge

Hotkey "S"
build Supply depot
build Overseer
build Pylon (hotkey = S)

This will make the game more user friendly and easy to learn. (but still hard to master)

[Kindlin]

While I see the point of this, I disagree. Each race has the same T1 units, for the most part, but after that it all gets very different. Sure, bind gateways and barracks together, but what do you bind that bind to for zerg? Each race has some units/buildings that don't have a similar match up in the other races and the end result would be that all T1 units/buildings have similar keybinds but after that it's basically how it is now. All this would do is make it confusing on which things are bound to a letter that makes sense and which are bound to a letter that doesn't.

Bliz could of picked either way to go about keybinds and they seemed to have picked this method. If they had started like how you suggest, then the current method would sound weird and stupid. What's been done isn't going to be undone.

[Lazz]

I like the way it is now. Too much overlap would be more confusing.

[Strimen]

Actually I was hoping that since there are 16 spots (I think) in the far rigth panel where abilities, units and buildings are all displayed that Bliz would have done something as simple as make it relate to the left hand side of our keyboard. So the top left square no matter what unit / building you selected was always 1 to activate whatever was in that square (or Q instead of 1 because some ppl would hate having to use the F1 key as their army group and the bottom row would have to use shift or alt as a modifier to the Z to V keys). That way every spell caster I created would have his 1-4 spells in the same slots so as soon as I grab any caster I can push the same 1-4 keys and it casts his spells. Attack icon would always be found in the space that relates to A and Stop icon in the space that relates to S, to reduce the amount of change old users would feel. So now all the races could have their similar buildings and units cions in similar places making them the same hot key. I think this would help alot of users deal with the three races sets of hot keys and have the benefit of not making your left hand need to float about the keyboard. At the very least bindable keys would be nice so that we can lay thigs out the way we want. Stop forcing ppl to use your layout scheme.

[Vonhenry]

This would be fine

QWER
ASDF
ZXCV

Sure we'd be 'forced' to learn this layout, but it's 100 times easier to remember visually where an ability is that than to memorize hotkeys that have zero correlation.

I can easily remember "X" would be "Tank Mode', as I can picture where the graphic is on the 4x4 grid. But common, in the heat of battle I'm supposed to remember "D". WTH?

Honestly - if you're a "one race" player, then it's easy enough to learn what Blizz has in place, but once you start to branch out it's a pain.

/end QQ

[Strimen]

This would be fine

QWER
ASDF
ZXCV

Sure we'd be 'forced' to learn this layout, but it's 100 times easier to remember visually where an ability is that than to memorize hotkeys that have zero correlation.

I can easily remember "X" would be "Tank Mode', as I can picture where the graphic is on the 4x4 grid. But common, in the heat of battle I'm supposed to remember "D". WTH?

Honestly - if you're a "one race" player, then it's easy enough to learn what Blizz has in place, but once you start to branch out it's a pain.

/end QQ


Exactly my thoughts.

[Toridas]

This would be fine

QWER
ASDF
ZXCV

Sure we'd be 'forced' to learn this layout, but it's 100 times easier to remember visually where an ability is that than to memorize hotkeys that have zero correlation.

I can easily remember "X" would be "Tank Mode', as I can picture where the graphic is on the 4x4 grid. But common, in the heat of battle I'm supposed to remember "D". WTH?

Honestly - if you're a "one race" player, then it's easy enough to learn what Blizz has in place, but once you start to branch out it's a pain.

/end QQ

I disagree, it's much easier for me to remember keys for units than memorizing every grid in the game. I know D is for marauder, but I can't be sure if it was the 2nd or 3rd icon in the barracks grid

[Strimen]

Thats great but D isn't the key for the marauder equivelent in P or Z so now you have to learn 3x more keys then the above suggested layout.

[Toridas]

plus I would never be able to get used to things like pressing W for stop, and T for attack

[Toridas]

Thats great but D isn't the key for the marauder equivelent in P or Z so now you have to learn 3x more keys then the above suggested layout.

So I'm assuming by zerg equivalent you mean the overlord?

[Strimen]

plus I would never be able to get used to things like pressing W for stop, and T for attack

Thats why I said put the icon for attack in the A spot and stop in the S spot. I.E. no issue for you.

[Strimen]

So I'm assuming by zerg equivalent you mean the overlord?


Ummmm, no Overlord would not be the equivalent to a maurader. lol. Try roach since its the next step up for zerg much like maurader is a step up from marine.

[Toridas]

Ummmm, no Overlord would not be the equivalent to a maurader. lol. Try roach since its the next step up for zerg much like maurader is a step up from marine.

what I'm trying to say is the zerg have only 1 production building, so you can't make equivalents with them.

[Thander]

Thats why I said put the icon for attack in the A spot and stop in the S spot. I.E. no issue for you.

I think that what look kind of funny. The design layout right now has the basic unit abilities move, stop, etc. on the top row. Followed by passive abilities usually next row. Then active abilities in the bottom row. I guess they could change the layout with a setting in the options, but it doesn't seem to be that big a deal. Just do what others have suggestion having one option for default hotkeys and another for grid layout hotkeys. The only thing that might cause problems is there are some global hotkeys like W that would have to be remapped.

[Kyrus]

You presume learning when it's more of an association. The hotkeys are assigned to a prevalent sounding letter that is relatively unique to the cluster (units a building can produce or research, etc) it belongs in, preferably a letter that is somewhat unique to the name of that unit.

The hotkeys are arranged with the following priority:

First letter of the unit name if in the left side of the keyboard (rest area).
Prominent or unique letter in the rest area of first letter is not (i.e. Mutalisk)

Ultimately though, it comes down to this. Blizzard has playtested the hotkeys rigorously. They have likely even used focus groups to test it. They have collected data and feedback which determines that the current setup is the most widely accepted. That does not mean that everyone will enjoy it, but that most do. I'm sorry you don't enjoy it, but coming out here saying it should be another way than it is when you don't have any data to back up your claims is pointless.

[Strimen]

Actually I do have data from other game companies. And they find that positional layout is better OR allowing people to layout their own keys is even better.

Here is an example layour which is already like the current SC layout:

Key/Grid Layout:
|Q|W|E|R|
|A|S|D|F|
|Z|X|C|V|
|z|x|c|v| <- this row uses Shift + Key


Unit Key Layout:

Q = build, W = advanced build, E = gather, R = return
A = attack, S = stop, D = hold, F = Patrol (aka Follow a route)
Z = ability 1, X = ability 2, C = ability 3, V = ability 4
z = passive 1, x = passive 2, c = passive 3, v = passive 4

(* passives - the seeing invisible unit ability, maurader slow aiblity, etc.)

Building Key Layout:
Basically unchanged positionally. Just make sure each races Nexus/CC/Hatch and gas buildings line up, as well as, any other possible similar buildings pylons/depot, evo/armory/forge, etc.


This typoe of layout is definately better for newer players, since they can glance down in the bottom right see the layour and push the key corresponding to what they need, vs having to click it with the mouse or hover over the icon to find out the hotkey to then press it and try to remember it while in the heat of battle in game. My layout allows for quicker cognitive connection and therefor sooner muscle memory adaption. Where as the current approach requires either out of game studying and memorization techniques or ingame thinking and theorizing (Mutalisk? Well I know its not 'M' cause 'M' is to far away so maybe its 'S'? No thats stop so 'T' maybe? Aghh concentrate on the battle..... Lose') Both of which are not conducive to a fast paced game like SC2.

[Magic]

Thats why I said put the icon for attack in the A spot and stop in the S spot. I.E. no issue for you.

That was also my request here.
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23614402395&postId=236120175121&sid=5000#0

It does seem like they are going to make it possible for custom keys, however in the beta currently its not fully implemented.

Might want to look at some of points.warkeys posts as he is also figuring out how custom keys works and has posted a few howtos. But like I said, as of yesterday it is broken in beta.

[Strimen]

Cool I'll chck it out. Thanks.

[Surael]

Actually I do have data from other game companies. And they find that positional layout is better OR allowing people to layout their own keys is even better.

Careful you don't step in the bull!#%@.

This typoe of layout is definately better for newer players, since they can glance down in the bottom right see the layour and push the key corresponding to what they need, vs having to click it with the mouse or hover over the icon to find out the hotkey to then press it and try to remember it while in the heat of battle in game. My layout allows for quicker cognitive connection and therefor sooner muscle memory adaption. Where as the current approach requires either out of game studying and memorization techniques or ingame thinking and theorizing (Mutalisk? Well I know its not 'M' cause 'M' is to far away so maybe its 'S'? No thats stop so 'T' maybe? Aghh concentrate on the battle..... Lose') Both of which are not conducive to a fast paced game like SC2.

Merely playing each race a few times is enough to memorize the majority of the hotkeys you use. A great deal of them are specified by unique or prevalent identifiers (the T in Mutalisk stands out from the rest of the name because of the hard consonant surrounded by soft vowels, M for Marine, D for Marauder, Z for Zergling, etc.). Many units are just the first letter, like the examples above and Zealots, Stalkers, Immortals, Colossus, Probe, Drone, SCV, Refinery, Extractor, Assimilator, Stargate, Barracks, Engineering Bay, Roach Warren, Spawning Pool, and an entire host of other examples.

If you literally have to study to learn "First letter, except where previously used, then most prevalent letter," it isn't the hotkeys to blame.

Besides, if you spend time in battle trying to remember a hotkey, you aren't prepared to be playing at the level at which you are playing.

[Lazz]

Once you learn the hotkeys, they're easy. Stop making a big shit about it. They're perfect as they are: on the left side of the keyboard.

[Krios]

Careful you don't step in the bull!#%@.



Merely playing each race a few times is enough to memorize the majority of the hotkeys you use. A great deal of them are specified by unique or prevalent identifiers (the T in Mutalisk stands out from the rest of the name because of the hard consonant surrounded by soft vowels, M for Marine, D for Marauder, Z for Zergling, etc.). Many units are just the first letter, like the examples above and Zealots, Stalkers, Immortals, Colossus, Probe, Drone, SCV, Refinery, Extractor, Assimilator, Stargate, Barracks, Engineering Bay, Roach Warren, Spawning Pool, and an entire host of other examples.

If you literally have to study to learn "First letter, except where previously used, then most prevalent letter," it isn't the hotkeys to blame.

Besides, if you spend time in battle trying to remember a hotkey, you aren't prepared to be playing at the level at which you are playing.

Dunno about you, but I have e for probe and a for marine.

[Strimen]

Dunno about you, but I have e for probe and a for marine.

Which is pretty much the issue. There isn't a really good way to guess what the hotkey is for any given unit/spell/building/etc. My solution would fix this issue as would allowing custom key bindings like in other PC games.

[Milenko]

does no one search the forums?
there's a forum dedciated to custom hotkeys, i've even made an easy gridkey file you just drop in the folder.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=969DVPUH
comes with a quick readme file also.

[Winobot]

I don't mind the hotkeys the way they are now. After using each one once or twice I tend to know it forever, and the current ones are already pretty tied into muscle memory for me (at least the common ones). Don't fix something that's not broken.

[Strimen]

does no one search the forums?
there's a forum dedciated to custom hotkeys, i've even made an easy gridkey file you just drop in the folder.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=969DVPUH
comes with a quick readme file also.

Its nice you created a little hack for it (accept the huge bug that makes you ahve to restart the game after every match), but basically I think the gist of this thread was to get Blz to allow this throuh the UI in a way that anyone can do it and that doesn't cause major issues like your little fix/hack does. But yes I am already using your hack currently to get the grid layour feeling.

[Milenko]

Its nice you created a little hack for it (accept the huge bug that makes you ahve to restart the game after every match), but basically I think the gist of this thread was to get Blz to allow this throuh the UI in a way that anyone can do it and that doesn't cause major issues like your little fix/hack does. But yes I am already using your hack currently to get the grid layour feeling.

yeah, that little glitch after every game was annoying at first, but it takes me 10 seconds to reboot the game, so i got used to it.
overall though, i think the trade-off to have gridkeys right now is worth it.

i just hope they do release an official custom keyset.

[Taerix]

I think they've done an excellent job with the hotkeys, especially compared to SC1. They are mostly all within easy reach plus they highly correlate with the unit name.

For me it's just a matter of practice, once I play enough games will all three races and get through the tech trees all the way I'll be able to remember the keys np.

[drummerdude41]

I actually just rote down the hotkey on a paper like in an organized list and than after about 2 multi games per race i have them memorized and if i happen to forget its right infront of me. the layoout is actually nice if you actually learn to use your whole hand instead of 1 or 2 fingers, its way faster!

[Moor]

Starcraft 2 (http://starcraft2guidebase.com)

[Taerix]

I see the validity of doing this, but personally I think it's too much trouble. If you get enough practice in, you'll have the hotkeys down no problem. They did a very good job placing them in easy to reach places (unlike SC1).

If you don't play enough to learn the hotkeys you'd probably do better focusing on just 1 race anyway.

[Gracken]

Hotkeys are useful. StarCraft 2 Guide (http://www.beststarcraft2guide.net)

[sc2scoorge]

ya you can edit your hotkey