Early Morning Terran 1v1 Livestreaming.

[Aphrodite]

I seem to have come up with a strat with my buddy that seems to work pretty well. Anyone that is interested in watching. I'm running a livestream 1v1 for the next few hours, and then later i'll be running 2v2 T&T.



I'm a platinum 2v2 player and a Bronze 1v1. Might be an interesting watch if anyone is somewhere they cant get on the game
http://www.livestream.com/starcraftterran




edited with the new channel.

[Aphrodite]

First game down. A win V Terran, Also, if you have any insights into things I could be doing better, please let me know. I'm enjoying the terran play at the moment.

[Cellar]

Unfortunately, we couldn’t find the page you were looking for. If you typed the address (URL) in manually, it's possible that it may have been misspelled.

[Bellastrega]

I'm watching it now, and there's two other viewers. The URL works okay for me.

[Bellastrega]

Aphrodite, on the second game: What tipped you off to the observer's location to scan that particular spot?

Some advice stolen from the platinum league terran player:

* Put your command center(s) in a group so you can just hotkey select, hotkey action, esp scan/mule
* Put your production buildings in one or more groups so you can hotkey select, hotkey build, etc.

I noticed you flipped back to the barracks to build more marines/marauders, and with hotkeys you wouldn't have to take your eyes off the fight at all.

[Aphrodite]

Yeah, I'm attempting to hotkey buildings, actually, the protoss that just beat me had I had my CC hotkeyed i probably would have won. I'm working on that particular aspect. Also, the observer, i saw the squiggly thing, and because it was toss i sort of expected collosus/immortals so i was watching for obs.

[Endureth]

Unfortunately, we couldn’t find the page you were looking for. If you typed the address (URL) in manually, it's possible that it may have been misspelled.

[Bellastrega]

Yeah, I'm attempting to hotkey buildings, actually, the protoss that just beat me had I had my CC hotkeyed i probably would have won. I'm working on that particular aspect. Also, the observer, i saw the squiggly thing, and because it was toss i sort of expected collosus/immortals so i was watching for obs.

Yeah, the squiggly thing is hard to see on small units with the low res livestreaming, so I missed it, even though I knew it'd be there.

I almost edited my post to point out the hotkeyed CC might have helped with the dark templars, but I decided that would be belaboring the point.

Another thing I've seen talked about is three barracks - either 2 reactor/1 tech lab or 2 tech lab/1 reactor, depending on how many marauders you want. Might be something to think about if you have more minerals than you can use.

[Aphrodite]

I'll paste it again, just incase, however, it seems its working for some people at the very least.


http://www.livestream.com/aphrodite

[Requisition]

I'm a platinum 2v2 player and a Bronze 1v1.

Thats an odd mix. Do you have a really nice 2v2 partner?

[Aphrodite]

I was actually placed in gold 1v1, but i was a little disappointed in the variety of units terran has to offer, i tried different things like mass hellions(lol) and wound up getting demoted to Bronze just a day or so ago after not touching 1v1 for a while. With the way i'm winning now, i'm going about 5 wins per 1 loss, i think i'll be re-placed in gold or at the very least silver.

[Aphrodite]

not really sure how i lost so badly to that protoss, typically collosus aren't a problem early game when FF'd by marauders.

[Pertinacious]

Not working for me either.

[Aphrodite]

Yeah, I'm attempting to get the bugs worked out. It doesn't seem to be a problem on my end, but rather livestream.

[Bellastrega]

The worst I had was it switched to some other channel while I had a different window open, and I had to sit through the mandatory commercial again.

Thanks for hosting the livestream - it was good to see some matches. I've been letting myself get dragged down with trying to keep a zillion counters in mind, but the games seemed simpler than that. Since I don't expect to qualify higher than bronze, it all should be good. :)

[Aphrodite]

http://www.livestream.com/starcraftterran



I had to restart the channel. I'll be playing for about an hour more. If anyone has any comments, feel free!

[Aphrodite]

Done for now! thanks for all the comments!

[Mogrinnar]

I see your you get 2 Barracks ( r + tl) early in game, mass many MM,and don't really tech higher until much later in game, to much success.

After I get 3-4 marauders and +12 marines, I feel paranoid about burrowed roaches/dark remplar/banshees ( even tought I know that they come later in game) so I get a engineering bay to have 2-3 missile towers around my base.

Also, after my 1st scouting run with my MM, I usually get a factory in order to get a starport, ultimately to have precious meidvacs to support. Of course during this I continue to produce Marines/Marauders when possible.

What I notice in your games is that since you (almost) don't build any Bays/Factories/CC/Starports even 2 minutes (more or less) after your 2 barracks are build, you are able to get an important amount of MM, enough to crush your opponent early game so badly that even if the game doesn't end right away, you crippled him in a game-ending way.

Why do you think your strat is so effective ? If your initial attack wasn't as successful, how do you tech ? If your initial attacks fails to any degree, don't you fear you shot yourself in the foot if the opponent as managed to beat you back and out-tech you ?

I'm just impressed at the "simple" strategy's power. I usually tech/expand when I have a small force, but in some games I do get crushed early game by a massive but low-tech army.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is : Even as effective as it is, don't you think you its a big gamble to mass many low-tech units to such a point instead of teching ?

Thanks

On a side note: I see that after your initial scv souting, when you mass your MMs, you don't scout much, or even at all. In that game vs the Protoss who Void-Ray rushed you, you only knew about it ... when the Rays where killing your CC. Any comments on that ?

-A terran player who wants to improve

[Aphrodite]

I see your you get 2 Barracks ( r + tl) early in game, mass many MM,and don't really tech higher until much later in game, to much success.

After I get 3-4 marauders and +12 marines, I feel paranoid about burrowed roaches/dark remplar/banshees ( even tought I know that they come later in game) so I get a engineering bay to have 2-3 missile towers around my base.

Also, after my 1st scouting run with my MM, I usually get a factory in order to get a starport, ultimately to have precious meidvacs to support. Of course during this I continue to produce Marines/Marauders when possible.

What I notice in your games is that since you (almost) don't build any Bays/Factories/CC/Starports even 2 minutes (more or less) after your 2 barracks are build, you are able to get an important amount of MM, enough to crush your opponent early game so badly that even if the game doesn't end right away, you crippled him in a game-ending way.

Why do you think your strat is so effective ? If your initial attack wasn't as successful, how do you tech ? If your initial attacks fails to any degree, don't you fear you shot yourself in the foot if the opponent as managed to beat you back and out-tech you ?

I'm just impressed at the "simple" strategy's power. I usually tech/expand when I have a small force, but in some games I do get crushed early game by a massive but low-tech army.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is : Even as effective as it is, don't you think you its a big gamble to mass many low-tech units to such a point instead of teching ?

Thanks

On a side note: I see that after your initial scv souting, when you mass your MMs, you don't scout much, or even at all. In that game vs the Protoss who Void-Ray rushed you, you only knew about it ... when the Rays where killing your CC. Any comments on that ?

-A terran player who wants to improve

I'll try to answer as best i can. I'm by no means an amazing player, i'm pretty sure my partner carries me in platinum 2's.

1. I have been screwed over by DT's/Banshee Etc, but once I have a sizable force of MM, i stop using the MULE, and only use it when my CC is at 200 Energy, scanner sweeps will take care of any issues those units could give you. Typically if I'm facing toss, on a 1v1 map, I will get a late bay with 1-2 missile towers, typically 1 in the front(DTs) and 1 near any scale-able walls, due to the fact that collosus usually run away the second they start getting hit by AA.

2. I have found in most games, people who are playing against terran are expecting Medivacs, I don't use them at all, the most use i have for medivacs are if i need to expand late game I use them to ferry SCV's to make expansions to out-mass the other player. I find medivacs to be a "situational" use, rather than a must have, for instance.
-Terran holed up in base, Medivac marines to backdoor, stim and kill workers before he can move his siege tanks
-Using them as pure distractions in a TvT battle, i will bring 2-3(the ones i use to ferry my SCV's around) and immediately turn them around, while the marines frantically chase the medivacs trying to Focus them down, my army decimates them.

Mostly, Medivacs for me come in late-game, where my initial push failed Which is almost never against Zerg, Sometimes against Toss(typically if they go zeal/stalker/immortal, i can take them out in a few pushes adding tanks), and more frequently in TvT mirror Matches.

3. As for teching, I do tech, in a way. I go double gas(which to most people when they scout me they think "Oh he's going air" I IMMEDIATELY get stims before anything else, a stimmed group of 20 can easily take out an unstimmed group of 35 or an even number roach/hydra force, lets not even talk about mutilisks, they get shredded. After Stims i get the marine HP upgrade, and if i pick up an engineering bay, the first level of weapon upgrades. I am usually around 70 pop in M+M before i do my initial push.

4. If my initial force isn't a success, i typically have a second force of equal or greater size waiting at my base, as you must have seen in my earlier games. I failed hard the later ones, getting tired. I keep pushing, keeping ANY opponent on the defensive is better then letting them have free-roam of the map. If all my constant pushing and expansion harassing fails, I will tech into tanks, get siege mode, and rarely get an armory to continue upgrading the infantry weaponry. I feel marines, marauders and siege tanks are the *core* of any terran build. Sure you can banshee/viking harass, but stimmed marauders/marines will take down anything, even their direct counter/t3 air units with enough of them..

5. And lastly, On the scouting front, Its just not needed, regardless of what the opponent is doing, I have the same basic build order, There has yet to be a single game where i thought to myself "*%*#, if i only had scouted him and seen X coming, i could have built Y to counter", Perhaps that is a symptom

[Aphrodite]

of lower league play, however, i was able to beat several high-league players with this "Simple" strat.


I hope i answered your questions, and others, feel free to comment. I will gladly post some replays as well, for anyone who missed out and is interested in said strat.

[Halogen]

unfortunately simple strtats that take no skill work very effectively at low tiers of play, for example in copper/bronze/silver you can 2 racks reactor mass marine rush and win 9 out of 10 games. however when you reach upper tier gold and platinum its more like you lose 9 in 10 games. and mass units rushing works at those tiers because people dont know how to balance units/tech, like this strat shows, had a guy mm ball me, prolly had 4 marauders, 12ish marines early rush, i had 2 siege tanks and 4 marines and he got destroyed, i lost 1 marine and it was from siege splash not the enemy units.

[Aphrodite]

http://jinxed-guild.com/SC2Replays/2010-03-13%2007-57-52.SC2Replay
http://jinxed-guild.com/SC2Replays/2010-03-13%2008-05-43.SC2Replay
http://jinxed-guild.com/SC2Replays/2010-03-13%2008-17-09.SC2Replay
http://jinxed-guild.com/SC2Replays/2010-03-13%2008-27-04.SC2Replay
http://jinxed-guild.com/SC2Replays/2010-03-13%2008-36-19.SC2Replay
http://jinxed-guild.com/SC2Replays/2010-03-13%2008-51-44.SC2Replay
http://jinxed-guild.com/SC2Replays/2010-03-13%2009-02-45.SC2Replay
http://jinxed-guild.com/SC2Replays/2010-03-13%2009-12-22.SC2Replay
http://jinxed-guild.com/SC2Replays/2010-03-13%2009-24-31.SC2Replay
http://jinxed-guild.com/SC2Replays/2010-03-13%2009-50-25.SC2Replay
http://jinxed-guild.com/SC2Replays/2010-03-13%2010-10-20.SC2Replay
http://jinxed-guild.com/SC2Replays/2010-03-13%2010-31-13.SC2Replay
http://jinxed-guild.com/SC2Replays/2010-03-13%2010-49-20.SC2Replay
http://jinxed-guild.com/SC2Replays/2010-03-13%2011-32-21.SC2Replay
http://jinxed-guild.com/SC2Replays/2010-03-13%2011-51-22.SC2Replay


Most of my replays from thismorning, 2-3 losses, lots of wins, and some very, very close games.

[Mogrinnar]

Thank you very much for the replies, very interesting and educational. :P

Just a little question on stimpacks: I see that you are definitly a big fan of stimpacks and will pretty much never hesitate to use hem. I must agree with you that a massive amount of stimpacked marines can decimate, but how good are 20 marines who are all in the red with 10/55 hp when you stimpacked them as much as you can ? I'm always scared to use stimpacks when I don't have medivacs arounds ( as you understood I am a medivac fanboy :P)

(Probably not) Last question: What do you do if you face Immortals and Colossi ? Marauders are somewhat effective against Colossi, but not (correct me if I'm wrong) against Immortals and Colossi will just annihilate marines. That's the only counter I could think of against your build for any race.

[Aphrodite]

unfortunately simple strtats that take no skill work very effectively at low tiers of play, for example in copper/bronze/silver you can 2 racks reactor mass marine rush and win 9 out of 10 games. however when you reach upper tier gold and platinum its more like you lose 9 in 10 games. and mass units rushing works at those tiers because people dont know how to balance units/tech, like this strat shows, had a guy mm ball me, prolly had 4 marauders, 12ish marines early rush, i had 2 siege tanks and 4 marines and he got destroyed, i lost 1 marine and it was from siege splash not the enemy units.


Sure, having an MM ball is going to do NOTHING except get you killed. Terran units for the most part are frail and need to be protected accordingly, However, Scanner Sweep stim killing the two seige mode tanks and then still remaining the superior force will net you a win in any league of play. There's intensive micro/macro involved in keeping your "MM ball" organized, bursting down the depot for terran and breaking into his base, making him lose the high ground vision/damage advantage, killing the queen to limit reproduction, killing overlords to limit supply. The idea is to either win in sheer numbers or cripple your opponent so your next wave strikes harder and harder. I don't really see this as a "noob" strat. You want to get as much as you can out of the little HP your units have, I would like to see someone straight tech to banshee with any kind of base defense even remotely survive a well-executed MM strike.

[Aphrodite]

Thank you very much for the replies, very interesting and educational. :P

Just a little question on stimpacks: I see that you are definitly a big fan of stimpacks and will pretty much never hesitate to use hem. I must agree with you that a massive amount of stimpacked marines can decimate, but how good are 20 marines who are all in the red with 10/55 hp when you stimpacked them as much as you can ? I'm always scared to use stimpacks when I don't have medivacs arounds ( as you understood I am a medivac fanboy :P)

(Probably not) Last question: What do you do if you face Immortals and Colossi ? Marauders are somewhat effective against Colossi, but not (correct me if I'm wrong) against Immortals and Colossi will just annihilate marines. That's the only counter I could think of against your build for any race.


Marines are VERY expendable, you can lose 20 marines and have them back, with a reactor'd rax in under the time it takes for the enemy force to get to your base.

As for immortals and Colossi, If you encounter these on your first "push"(it is possible) You will only ever see 1-2 colossi and maybe 3 immortals with a fair helping of zealots. Immortals(DESTROY) Marauders, and colossi destroy marines, so it is imperative that you down the colossi first, as well as any sentries that may be in play, once the colossi is down, the immortals and zealots typically fall quickly, a protoss that goes that strat will typically take a bit more teching and a slightly longer game, just because my 70 pop force is about = to a 3 immortal 1 colossi 15 zealot force.


edit to say: if you attack move you will fail miserably.

[Aphrodite]

GOING AGAIN


http://www.livestream.com/starcraftterran