Reapers.

[Atralian]

Anyone notice that reapers seem to be a tad overpowered? As Protoss, there isn't a low tech or first tier counter readily available that doesn't require massive amounts of timing and micro. Granted, most counters SHOULD require micro, but being forced to pick up sentries and praying my force bubbles end up in the right place seems a bit much to counter an easily massed unit.

Lets not get started on the whole "I'm a tier 1 unit that does 40 damage a hit to buildings." Uhm, ouch? They can shred through any photon cannon placements I may have dropped the minerals on early game to protect against that exact kind of rush.

Simply put, reapers are far too readily able to massacre someone's economy early game for their tier placement. Now, if this is just me, I'll gladly accept any advice on countering the little buggers, but if it's not... I think they could either use a cooldown on their jet packs, or a reduction/removal of their building damage.

[Lagorathia]

i would go with just a straight up removal of that attack. it's way too powerful. I wouldn't mind seeing their charges come back as an ability with a cooldown, but their bonus against buildings is just crazy for a t1 unit that can scale cliffs.

[Xandros]

Yea, reapers just rape defensive structures and resource lines. They don't do jack all to armies though, just park a few stalkers by your miners and you'll be fine. The main problem with that, however, is it requires you to keep a large portion of your army by your base. This allows the terran to expand and gain map advantage quite easily with just some cheap tier 1 units.

[Atralian]

Agreed. The only other unit that does that much direct damage to buildings are Warp Rays and Ultralisks. The former is arguable due to their methods of damage, and Ultralisks are pretty late tier.

[Atralian]

Yea, reapers just rape defensive structures and resource lines. They don't do jack all to armies though, just park a few stalkers by your miners and you'll be fine. The main problem with that, however, is it requires you to keep a large portion of your army by your base. This allows the terran to expand and gain map advantage quite easily with just some cheap tier 1 units.

Which is the big issue, really. It's not that they're too powerful, it's just that they're too powerful too early. I can see them being at least a T2 unit with their current strength, and they'd still be pretty useful in a lot of "raid" style situations.

[Geonon]

I'll second the opinions here, I've slaughtered and been slaughtered by Reapers early game, and have talked to other that have complained about the same thing. If there was a good counter just as early or maybe certain defensive structures like cannons had a defensive bonus against their attack it wouldn't be so bad. Some balancing here defiantly needs to happen.

[Bundles]

Anyone notice that reapers seem to be a tad overpowered? As Protoss, there isn't a low tech or first tier counter readily available that doesn't require massive amounts of timing and micro. Granted, most counters SHOULD require micro, but being forced to pick up sentries and praying my force bubbles end up in the right place seems a bit much to counter an easily massed unit.

Lets not get started on the whole "I'm a tier 1 unit that does 40 damage a hit to buildings." Uhm, ouch? They can shred through any photon cannon placements I may have dropped the minerals on early game to protect against that exact kind of rush.

Simply put, reapers are far too readily able to massacre someone's economy early game for their tier placement. Now, if this is just me, I'll gladly accept any advice on countering the little buggers, but if it's not... I think they could either use a cooldown on their jet packs, or a reduction/removal of their building damage.

1) put 1 - 2 stalkers in your mineral lines

2) you are now far ahead now that they have wasted tech, time and resources on units that are useless in combat

[Metallic]

Scout their base. If they are getting gas really early, then get some roaches/stalkers/whatever built up, or just harass them before they have a chance to get the reapers up.

[Krazytrumpet]

I got suckered by Reapers in my very first match, and about 20 matches since, I have had zero problems defending against Reapers. Cannons and stalkers.

[Atralian]

Alright, I'll give some early game cannon/stalkers around my minerals a go. I'm still thinking they need a moderate tune down regardless, at least in building damage potential.

[Rotten]

I can't speak from a protoss pov, but with zerg I've found a couple sunken colonies does more than the trick ... and i know i've stopped it with just one sunken and my queen before. granted they hadn't massed them, but i'm usually on top of them pretty quickly with roaches anyways so there wasn't really much of a window for them to mass them.

[Atralian]

I can't speak from a protoss pov, but with zerg I've found a couple sunken colonies does more than the trick ... and i know i've stopped it with just one sunken and my queen before. granted they hadn't massed them, but i'm usually on top of them pretty quickly with roaches anyways so there wasn't really much of a window for them to mass them.

Yeah, I'm usually getting hit by 10+ within 6-7 minutes whenever this issue crops up. I guess I should be a bit more focused with my scouting in the future, it's somewhat of a new habit I'm not quite used to.

[Supersoldier]

I think reapers are fine as is. They're very situational. They are very bad against units. They cant attack air, they cant even kill harvesters that well. They are great at destroying expos and very fast and maneuverable. If you catch your opponent off guard you can do a lot of damage, which I think is perfectly reasonable. They cost 50 gas and you need a good 8-12 to be able to use them to their potential. I think they are considerably better TvP than TvZ also. Zealots w/o charge cant catch them.

[spike]

I think reapers are fine as is. They're very situational. They are very bad against units. They cant attack air, they cant even kill harvesters that well. They are great at destroying expos and very fast and maneuverable. If you catch your opponent off guard you can do a lot of damage, which I think is perfectly reasonable. They cost 50 gas and you need a good 8-12 to be able to use them to their potential. I think they are considerably better TvP than TvZ also. Zealots w/o charge cant catch them.



You can easily kill a protoss' base with ~5 reapers if you're semi decent at microing.

[Atralian]

I think reapers are fine as is. They're very situational. They are very bad against units. They cant attack air, they cant even kill harvesters that well. They are great at destroying expos and very fast and maneuverable. If you catch your opponent off guard you can do a lot of damage, which I think is perfectly reasonable. They cost 50 gas and you need a good 8-12 to be able to use them to their potential. I think they are considerably better TvP than TvZ also. Zealots w/o charge cant catch them.



That's pretty much my point. Charge is an expensive midgame tech, whereas reapers can be pumped out from the getgo. As for "very bad against units", that's an arguable term as well. As you said, Zealots simply can't catch them without the necessary tech. A few reapers could just skate around the zealots picking them off, or hop up and down cliffs keeping the zealots at range all the while.

Aside from that, my main argument is really how EARLY reapers can completely destroy your econ/base defenses. Unless you play with the specific purpose of proxy gate rushing them as Protoss, any Terran who builds reapers from the getgo is going to roll you.

[Darksquad]

I've gotten beaten a couple times (by the same guy) by this too. I asked for advice and my opponent recommended fast stalkers. The second time I knew it was coming both because it was the same guy and because I scouted, prepared cannons but they're not that useful. Next time, stalkers it is.

[Imdrunkontea]

As a terran player, I can say that reapers are good - as long as your opponent didn't prepare for them.

They may be relatively cheap, but their gas cost is quite high for each unit, considering how fragile they are. If you can push back the first wave (I recommend stalkers over cannons - reapers do little damage to armored units) then the terran player pretty much can only produce marauders and marines, since they won't have gas for factory units.

[Joshsuth]

I got some footage of reapers just absolutely tearing up a resource line:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jpI9LalKR4

[Inblue]

I'd just like to strongly re-iterate the gas cost and bring up a new point:

The gas cost is very high, meaning that a team of zealots can usually get to me before I can produce enough of them, and I've been practicing the reaper build order quite a bit. I'm not saying that I'm a perfect example of proof, but I have had success with reapers and feel that their gas cost is their most limiting factor in terms of timing.</li>
They really really suck against other tier 1 units in most cases. This is one of the very few units in my experience that zerglings are good against, for example. What people aren't bringing up is that when you upgrade them with Nitro Boost, they can effectively kite most units in the game. Not only that, but they can very quickly turn around and head back for defense should the need arise. They cross the 1v1 maps in something like 15 sec, for example. It's really insane.</li>
Main point: Upgrade their speed. Try kiting with these things to see how they can be most abused.

[Essentia]

Reapers are VERY powerful to buildings themselves there's no question about it......but they are garbage vs normal units. I have found that having 2 stalkers to protect my mineral line is good enough.

[Persona]

Reapers might do a lot of damage, but this is getting crazy. protect your mineral line!

[Cybexx]

I think reapers are fairly well balanced, they are great against buildings yes, but it doesn't take too many of another unit to wipe them out. You need a tech lab, a bunch of gas and a decent amount of time to get a small group of them together. If I wanted to rush I would be better off going with the large group of marines I could build in the same time.

Because of their Jetpack ability they are great as early game harassment, just jump in behind enemy lines and lay waste if your opponent is caught off guard. However I had one game against another Terran player, he caught me with that trick once, but I placed a group of 3 marines and 2 marauders where he was jumping up and I was able to take down about 6 waves of them before they could do anything. I probably could have got away with less units guarding that spot.

My last game I won with reapers against another Terran player, but I feel he quit too early. I was able to jump in with a group of 5 reapers, take out a few marines and a barracks. But, that was only because the marines were caught off-guard running in the opposite direction. My opponent quit after that, but he had two Marauders close by that could have taken my reapers out no problem.

[Cevo]

honestly reapers early game aren't great.. just atk them cuz reapers dont do squat to units

[Luckishot]

Okay, let's break it down.

To get a single reaper, you require

1x Barracks, 150 min
1x Tech Lab, 50 min 50 gas
1x Reaper 50 min 50 gas

To get a single stalker, you require

1x Gateway 150 min
1x Cybernetics core 150 min
1x Stalker 125 min 50 gas

So, it's 200 minerals and 100 gas versus 425 minerals and 50 gas. Often against a Terran player I will be attacked by one Reaper to begin with before more pour in. Generally they go for the pylon powering my gateway, especially if I have a cybernetics core already built. The question then becomes one of mathematics. On a small map, is it possible to produce a stalker before your pylon falls? Can you afford to build two pylons and suffer a slightly longer wait for your Cybernetics Core? Perhaps you can micro your probes to attack the reaper in order to buy you some time.

Edit: Thought I'd point out that reapers are pretty terrible against Zerg until they have faster movement researched. This topic is more focused on Protoss vs. Terran strategy, as far as I'm aware.

[Robotronic]

Reapers are really rude and amazing harassers, but if you get them into a firefight they will lose.

If you're losing to them, it means you don't have enough defensive units to counter them with.

[Essentia]

Use defensive UNITS not defensive STRUCTURES!

Seriously I thought they were really imba, but they are defeated SOOOO easily with normal fighting units.

For me 2 stalkers can take care of like 8 of em

[OneManZerg]

Reapers are awesome !

Check out how to better use them at http://www.theuen.com/units/terran/reaper

There are so many great strategies for them and scouting with them and leveraging cliffs and ledges.... oh my !

[Moor]

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[Gracken]

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[sc2scoorge]

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