It is too early for elitism.

[Samus]

I don't know about any of you but I've only been in the beta for a week. I'm already starting to see the "OMG i hav a noob partner" crap. I've also been cussed out as well.

It is a little too early for the elite jag offs who think they know everything to start spouting off. At least when WoW launched people were cordial and helpful for a few months before players starting ripping each other to shreds on how skillful they were. I'm glad a lot of folks have picked up the game quickly and can now ROFL stomp everyone. This is still a little new for me and maybe some others as well.

Is it possible for Blizzard to promote a more friendly game enviorment? Yes, you cannot prevent the jerks from coming in to the game because jerks will ALWAYS be jerks. But if this is what Battle.net will be, I'll probably just stick to single player campaigns.

Call it QQ if you want. I can take whatever comes my way. But after five years of it in World of Warcraft, it's gotten old. And I hate it.

[Sludge]

I know what you mean...I tend to hate the attitude that some people have, although to be fair I haven't run in to it much in starcraft 1/2. Definitely in WoW though.

1v1 seems to be a lot friendlier, since you're responsible for yourself. I haven't ventured in to 2v2, mainly for the reasons you described. Not my cup of tea.

[Colrath]

Don't bother with 2v2, it's just frustrating. You'll learn 10 times faster in 1v1 matches.

[Conniption]

Pretty much any online gaming is like that..actually anything online at all, and i dont think thats going anywhere.
In FPS games the first thing i do is go through and /mute everyone, but for here all i can say is find someone you know, or know not to be a jerk, or play 1v1, people are generally gracious winners as it boosts their score and epeen, and terrible losers when you cause theres to go down or shorten.

[Samus]

Pretty much any online gaming is like that..actually anything online at all, and i dont think thats going anywhere.
In FPS games the first thing i do is go through and /mute everyone, but for here all i can say is find someone you know, or know not to be a jerk, or play 1v1, people are generally gracious winners as it boosts their score and epeen, and terrible losers when you cause theres to go down or shorten.

I wish I knew how to mute everyone. Or report them. I thought the beta would be "We're watching and will not tolerate that" but apparently not.

[Colrath]

I wish I knew how to mute everyone. Or report them. I thought the beta would be "We're watching and will not tolerate that" but apparently not.

You should be able to right click on his name and report him, from the in-game chat. If that doesn't work, go to your game overview (The one you get to right after a game, with all the stats) and right click on his name there. Add him as a friend, report/ignore him, unfriend him, walk away.

[Adamu]

If you're going to try and tell me that nobody was a jerk running Deadmines when WoW launched then I think you're remembering things a little too rosey.

[Samus]

If you're going to try and tell me that nobody was a jerk running Deadmines when WoW launched then I think you're remembering things a little too rosey.Of course it was. But it was not as bad as it is now.

I believe my point has been made.

[mark]

Well, not to be harsh but when you list your game experience as 5 years of WoW there is probably a reason people don't like being your partner. We all have competitive urges, and a significant amount of the people in the beta are here and interested because they played the original starcraft. Blizz has kept the spirit, some mechanics, and a few units from the original; its reasonably easy to pick up in a week or two with SC1 experience. Of course, even now the pro starcraft scene is evolving new strategies so no one can say they have mastered the original, even Jaedong.

However, when I random 2v2, which I do sometimes because I'm on at different times than my friends, I can tell almost immediately if my partner is coming to the beta from starcract or wracraft, or if they come from WoW.

I'm no great player, merely gold league 1v1, but a lot of my friends I played the original starcraft with have contacted me to form 2v2 teams. These are people who played off and on over the past ten years, occasionally watch pro vods on youtube etc. Out of six partners I have 6 2v2 platinum ratings. Its not hard if you played starcraft before.

Let me use a WoW analogy for you. Say someone ebayed an 80 and joined your raid. You are that guy right now.

[Khanzure]

Let me use a WoW analogy for you. Say someone ebayed an 80 and joined your raid. You are that guy right now.

-1

That's not fair. OP did nothing like that. He didn't go spend $500 (illicitly) on pixels. He just signed up for a beta and Blizzard chose to let him in, and probably for good reason. If it was all people like you in this beta, it would be a nasty place.

You're just proving OP's point.

[Noid]

I don't know about any of you but I've only been in the beta for a week. I'm already starting to see the "OMG i hav a noob partner" crap. I've also been cussed out as well.

It is a little too early for the elite jag offs who think they know everything to start spouting off. At least when WoW launched people were cordial and helpful for a few months before players starting ripping each other to shreds on how skillful they were. I'm glad a lot of folks have picked up the game quickly and can now ROFL stomp everyone. This is still a little new for me and maybe some others as well.

Is it possible for Blizzard to promote a more friendly game enviorment? Yes, you cannot prevent the jerks from coming in to the game because jerks will ALWAYS be jerks. But if this is what Battle.net will be, I'll probably just stick to single player campaigns.

Call it QQ if you want. I can take whatever comes my way. But after five years of it in World of Warcraft, it's gotten old. And I hate it.

Get better and stop crying. This is the problem with online gaming today, and the reason for unwanted language barriers. People like you are completely unable to take any sort of criticism. If you're bad, you should be told you're bad, accept it and strive to improve your game. What is the point of playing online if you don't want to hear what people have to say? Just play 2v2 with the computer, because it doesn't care if you're a terrible copper scrub.

Trash talk is a fun part of online gaming. People like you are ruining it with your crying.

[Endureth]

Let me use a WoW analogy for you. Say someone ebayed an 80 and joined your raid. You are that guy right now.

oooo I love a good analogy. I wanna play too. k, say someone thought they were important but really they were just another nobody. You are that guy right now.

[Dalcyon]

I can tell almost immediately if my partner is coming to the beta from starcraft or warcraft, or if they come from WoW.


This is just wrong on so many different levels. Yes, most wow players aren't skilled at RTS multiplayer.But it is possible for people who played Starcraft and Warcraft to move on to WoW. In fact, there's a really great number of people out there who played Starcraft and Warcraft multiplayer who moved on to WoW. There are A LOT of good RTS players out there who are currently playing WoW. WoW evolved from Warcraft which is an RTS after all.

And for a person to not be good at SC2 doesn't mean they play WoW. This could even be the first Blizzard game they ever played.

There is absolutely NO way you can tell for sure if a player is coming from Starcraft, Warcraft or WoW. Or any game for that matter. You can guess though.

[Noid]

Also, you're 9-46 in 2v2. After that many games you should be getting better. My advice is to play more 1v1, watch pro replays, watch your own replays, and try to figure out what you're doing wrong.

This is a competitive game. People are going to rip on you if you're bad. That's just a part of online gaming.

[Chohkmah]

Get better and stop crying. This is the problem with online gaming today, and the reason for unwanted language barriers. People like you are completely unable to take any sort of criticism. If you're bad, you should be told you're bad, accept it and strive to improve your game. What is the point of playing online if you don't want to hear what people have to say? Just play 2v2 with the computer, because it doesn't care if you're a terrible copper scrub.

Trash talk is a fun part of online gaming. People like you are ruining it with your crying.

So tell me, does your penor get bigger when you trash talk? Does it make you feel more manly? Is talking sh!t your own personal viagra?

Cuz from this angle it looks like you're in a BETA, BETA TESTING A PRODUCT. Not here so you can flex you d!ck in the mirror... cuz no one else is looking, i guarantee.

[Dalcyon]

oooo I love a good analogy. I wanna play too. k, say someone thought they were important but really they were just another nobody. You are that guy right now.

+1

[honeybadger]

Well, not to be harsh but when you list your game experience as 5 years of WoW there is probably a reason people don't like being your partner. We all have competitive urges, and a significant amount of the people in the beta are here and interested because they played the original starcraft. Blizz has kept the spirit, some mechanics, and a few units from the original; its reasonably easy to pick up in a week or two with SC1 experience. Of course, even now the pro starcraft scene is evolving new strategies so no one can say they have mastered the original, even Jaedong.

However, when I random 2v2, which I do sometimes because I'm on at different times than my friends, I can tell almost immediately if my partner is coming to the beta from starcract or wracraft, or if they come from WoW.

I'm no great player, merely gold league 1v1, but a lot of my friends I played the original starcraft with have contacted me to form 2v2 teams. These are people who played off and on over the past ten years, occasionally watch pro vods on youtube etc. Out of six partners I have 6 2v2 platinum ratings. Its not hard if you played starcraft before.

Let me use a WoW analogy for you. Say someone ebayed an 80 and joined your raid. You are that guy right now.

As someone who was a top ten shaman (PVE) worldwide in a top ten guild during BC, I have to say you're coming to a logical conclusion based on fallacious grounds.

There's no excuse to behave that way. Period. If you joined a random encounter with a bad player, it's your fault for joining a random game. You want a good game paired to your skill level? get a teammate and play ladder. That's how things work.

I know that if I come up against a team with a bad partner that I got randomly, I will quickly go through the motions and bring them up to speed on how to resource, scout, and what units to build, who to attack, etc.

If we lose, no big deal. It's random. If I don't want to risk my ladder score, I play with a friend.

So elitism has no place in the video game world. I frown upon it, and even when I'm at the very top tier of a video game's talent (such as mechwarrior leagues back during black knight) I am cordial, friendly, helpful, and I do no less domination than the mean jerk who slams home as many "LOLNOOB"s as he does wins.

And as for anyone who says that elitism is what online gaming communities eventually do, and use that as an excuse, shame on you. Elitism and jerkey behavior is the number one thing that RUINS gaming communities. Starcraft, DOTA, WCIII, counter strike, the list goes on and on. All games that I stopped enjoying when the players started acting like 12 year olds. Even if I was better than my jerk opponents, I had no fun beating them through the flurry of offensive yammering.

[Dalcyon]

Get better and stop crying. This is the problem with online gaming today, and the reason for unwanted language barriers. People like you are completely unable to take any sort of criticism. If you're bad, you should be told you're bad, accept it and strive to improve your game. What is the point of playing online if you don't want to hear what people have to say? Just play 2v2 with the computer, because it doesn't care if you're a terrible copper scrub.

Trash talk is a fun part of online gaming. People like you are ruining it with your crying.

Isn't trash talking sort of crying too? No wait it's more like a little kid throwing tantrums because their partner sucked at 2v2.
If you lost a 2v2 cause of a bad partner, why don't you just leave the game and move on. Or better yet, give em tips on how they can improve. Why do you have to bring down other people? It's their game too and you have no right to blame them for being bad. If you blame every bad partner you get out there, you would be wasting a lot of your time. Trust me.

[Noid]

So tell me, does your penor get bigger when you trash talk? Does it make you feel more manly? Is talking sh!t your own personal viagra?

Cuz from this angle it looks like you're in a BETA, BETA TESTING A PRODUCT. Not here so you can flex you d!ck in the mirror... cuz no one else is looking, i guarantee.}

It enhances the competitive element of the game to make it more exciting. When I get trash talked, I don't cry. I watch my replay and figure out what I did wrong. I accept the fact that I got stomped, and I get better.

We're in beta, yes, but that doesn't stop people from wanting to be competitive and make things interesting. This guy is crying his eyes out saying he'll just stick to single player if the big bad boys on the internets keep pointing out his lack of skill. I'm just telling him that his pity party doesn't help him get any better, and if he wants to play online, he needs to improve his game.

[Dalcyon]

As someone who was a top ten shaman (PVE) worldwide in a top ten guild during BC, I have to say you're coming to a logical conclusion based on fallacious grounds.

There's no excuse to behave that way. Period. If you joined a random encounter with a bad player, it's your fault for joining a random game. You want a good game paired to your skill level? get a teammate and play ladder. That's how things work.

I know that if I come up against a team with a bad partner that I got randomly, I will quickly go through the motions and bring them up to speed on how to resource, scout, and what units to build, who to attack, etc.

If we lose, no big deal. It's random. If I don't want to risk my ladder score, I play with a friend.

So elitism has no place in the video game world. I frown upon it, and even when I'm at the very top tier of a video game's talent (such as mechwarrior leagues back during black knight) I am cordial, friendly, helpful, and I do no less domination than the mean jerk who slams home as many "LOLNOOB"s as he does wins.

And as for anyone who says that elitism is what online gaming communities eventually do, and use that as an excuse, shame on you. Elitism and jerkey behavior is the number one thing that RUINS gaming communities. Starcraft, DOTA, WCIII, counter strike, the list goes on and on. All games that I stopped enjoying when the players started acting like 12 year olds. Even if I was better than my jerk opponents, I had no fun beating them through the flurry of offensive yammering.

Everything you said is so true. You have my respect.

There's no excuse to behave that way. Period. If you joined a random encounter with a bad player, it's your fault for joining a random game.

[Kranden]

Remember the trick is to act like a total !!%%*%# to everybody you beat and act like you are the best starcraft player in the world. Then procede to tell him how terrible they are and how they should go back to playing barbie horse adventure because its more up to their speed.

However when you lose say it was because they were map hacking and or lag and rage quit before they can respond.

Hope that helps.

[Noid]

Also, why can't you just dismiss what they say and move on if you really don't care. Why does there have to be some language barrier in place to protect you? It's text on a screen, not a punch in the lips.

[Sludge]

}

It enhances the competitive element of the game to make it more exciting. When I get trash talked, I don't cry. I watch my replay and figure out what I did wrong. I accept the fact that I got stomped, and I get better.

We're in beta, yes, but that doesn't stop people from wanting to be competitive and make things interesting. This guy is crying his eyes out saying he'll just stick to single player if the big bad boys on the internets keep pointing out his lack of skill. I'm just telling him that his pity party doesn't help him get any better, and if he wants to play online, he needs to improve his game.


Crying his eyes out?

Right.

[Dalcyon]

}

and if he wants to play online, he needs to improve his game.


Wrong, wrong and wrong.
If this was so, only a few players would play online.

[mark]

I guess I hurt a lot of WoW players feelings with my post! Keep in mind MMORPG 'skill' does not translate to RTS skill. You won't get a lucky sword of vorpal dragon killing +232 and coast on that for your next hundred starcraft games =].

Anyway, here is some general advice for 2v2:

You should pretty much always be making workers. You should use the accelerators available to each race every time you can: chrono boost, mule, queen larvae ability. You should make 2-3 of the initial unit buildings for protoss and terran, and a queen for zerg right after your first supply structure/overlord. Try using reactors/chrono boost/larvae spawn to increase your initial buildings output.

If intricate tech based strategies seem to elude you, its just as valid to mass the lowest tier units and win through superior position and micro in the early game. In fact, this skill will help you all through your development as a starcraft player, as the skill will transfer to the higher level units once you become confortable enough to use them.

You want to gang up with your partner 2v1 whenever you can, and avoid this happening to you. Send a worker to look in the enemy base, then park it on the zel naga watch tower. Use the little ping button next to the minimap to corrdinate strikes, alert your partner, and ask for help defending.

I hope you actually wanted advice on how to get better and not just talk about your hurt feelings or I wasted a few minutes of time typing this out!

[Dalcyon]

In my opinion elitism screams of "I have no life outside of video games that's why I have to be the best!!" Pro players don't shout it out loud, If you haven't noticed.

[Dalcyon]

Also, why can't you just dismiss what they say and move on if you really don't care. Why does there have to be some language barrier in place to protect you? It's text on a screen, not a punch in the lips.

Verbal abuse is bad. A lot of people get fired in the work place because of this. A lot of kids get messed up because of this. It is uncivilized.

[Inoob]

Yeah, Early WoW was a much better place. The first months of beta was great, because there were a lot of friends of blizzard employees on, and the world was much more pleasant to be in.

as for 2v2 in sc2. try to find a friend and play 2v2 with him/her. grab a microphone or a headset with one, a copy of ventrillo, and that will make it a much better experience.

communication during 2v2 is huge, and playing with someone that isn't a jerk off just makes it that much more fun.

Also, why can't you just dismiss what they say and move on if you really don't care. Why does there have to be some language barrier in place to protect you? It's text on a screen, not a punch in the lips.

once or twice is one thing, but when this happens more and more often, it becomes less and less fun. if this becomes extremely common in the sc2 community then the amount of people that will drop off from playing will be huge. if you want this game to be truly successful, you should be welcoming of new blood.

[Noid]

People get flamed for being bad in SC1 and WC3, and both games don't miss the 300 crybabies that "stick to single player" because of it.

Edit: BTW, I'm not saying it's ok to cuss a person out because they're awful, but telling them the truth and adding a little flavor to it isn't a bad thing imo.

[Chohkmah]

}

It enhances the competitive element of the game to make it more exciting. When I get trash talked, I don't cry. I watch my replay and figure out what I did wrong. I accept the fact that I got stomped, and I get better.

We're in beta, yes, but that doesn't stop people from wanting to be competitive and make things interesting. This guy is crying his eyes out saying he'll just stick to single player if the big bad boys on the internets keep pointing out his lack of skill. I'm just telling him that his pity party doesn't help him get any better, and if he wants to play online, he needs to improve his game.


"enhances the competitive element?" Please, try to come up with something a little more convincing than that. Trash talking is nothing but ego ##!%%@@*@ion. Y'know how every professional sport has sportsmanship rules? How pro games don't call each other worthless scrubs?

Trash talking is only for egomaniacal people for whom true competition - winning, hell dominating the other team/opponant - isn't enough, and they must then rub their supposed "superiority" in the other's face.

Trash talking doesn't make you cool. Doesn't make you better. Doesn't make you more competitive. I makes you an ass, and that's all. And certainly in a beta, there's no place for it.

[Rackdude]

If it's common that people are talking like that then you're doing something wrong. Upload some replays and we can help you out.

For those of who try to say it's wrong because it's the beta: You're wrong because it's the beta! The point of the beta is to find out the flaws of the game, and the best way to find out imbalance easy win flaws in the game is to exploit them. To really exploit the flaws, you have to be playing competitive (otherwise it's hard to tell if it's a flaw if you're dropping half of your games with it!).

Lastly, some people are just jerks so why don't you just get better and beat them instead of complaining you don't like them?

[Chohkmah]

People get flamed for being bad in SC1 and WC3, and both games don't miss the 300 crybabies that "stick to single player" because of it.

Edit: BTW, I'm not saying it's ok to cuss a person out because they're awful, but telling them the truth and adding a little flavor to it isn't a bad thing imo.

For what point and purpose?

Typing "lol scrub u suk nub go back 2 wow lawlz" helps them become better how? It's not like you're giving them an analysis of their shortcomings. You're just saying it to sound "better" than them.

Don't try to pretend like it's anything but that.

[Vexorian]

Well, I played only 1v1 matches so far, but the guys have been friendly most of the time. It may be because after my 10 first games I ended in a copper division that is as full of players that are as bad as I am (no offence) so maybe it is just we take the game less seriously but so far no "gg noob u suck" messages have appeared to me. Wish it would stay like that but the truth is that once the game goes retail and all the pros start buying it, bnet will be a very bad place for casual players like me. I have gotten used to it though ºº.


I can tell almost immediately if my partner is coming to the beta from starcract or wracraft, or if they come from WoW.

I come from warcraft and starcraft and I am worse than some WoW players, you insenstivie clod!

[Nezdragon]

One thing I've noticed is that the immature behavior like trash talking, name calling, and elitism are inversely proportional to the source's self-esteem and personal ability.

In lay terms, someone who calls you names if you lose, calls you names if you win, is probably doing so because the only way they can make themselves feel better is to put other people down. It gives them an inflated sense of worth, that little thrill that oh, I'm better than this person because I can insult them. And it's not harmless. Anyone who's been verbally abused, whether it be at school, home, or the workplace, can attest to this.

[Pdc]

For what point and purpose?

Typing "lol scrub u suk nub go back 2 wow lawlz" helps them become better how? It's not like you're giving them an analysis of their shortcomings. You're just saying it to sound "better" than them.

Don't try to pretend like it's anything but that.

Agreed.

Also, sometimes even with replays after I've one people ask me questions ("how did you know to do x? I couldn't figure out how to counter y?") and I'm more than happy to give my thoughts.

We're all here to have fun, and I'm here to kick your butt as swiftly and thoroughly as I can, but there's no reason to be uncivil about it, ever. Winning, losing, it doesn't matter.

It's an interesting mindset some people have. If I beat someone and they get whiny about it, I just feel exasperated. I think there's a lot of people who get giddy and excited when they've pissed someone off, which I simply don't understand.

[Noid]

One thing I've noticed is that the immature behavior like trash talking, name calling, and elitism are inversely proportional to the source's self-esteem and personal ability.

In lay terms, someone who calls you names if you lose, calls you names if you win, is probably doing so because the only way they can make themselves feel better is to put other people down. It gives them an inflated sense of worth, that little thrill that oh, I'm better than this person because I can insult them. And it's not harmless. Anyone who's been verbally abused, whether it be at school, home, or the workplace, can attest to this.

Completely untrue.

You people won't be happy until in game chat is a thing of the past, and the only communication with your opponent/team mate will be through a drop down menu with pre-written comments.

Oh, and to clarify, my trash talk is aimed mostly at people of equal skill, or better. I don't play RT, so I don't get the chance to rip on noobs, but when I was an RTS noob, I used those insults to fuel my desire to get better at the game.

[Nezdragon]

Completely untrue.

You people won't be happy until in game chat is a thing of the past, and the only communication with your opponent/team mate will be through a drop down menu with pre-written comments.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware it could only be one or the other.

[Noid]

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware it could only be one or the other.

If not, then what solution do you suggest?

Again, I ask, why can't people just ignore it if they don't like it. Why do they need protection from text?

What I'm getting at, is that some people enjoy the exchange of trash talk. If you take that away, how is it fair to those that enjoy it? The ignore feature is in place for a reason. Use it.

[Nezdragon]

If not, then what solution do you suggest?

Again, I ask, why can't people just ignore it if they don't like it. Why do they need protection from text?

What I'm getting at, is that some people enjoy the exchange of trash talk. If you take that away, how is it fair to those that enjoy it? The ignore feature is in place for a reason. Use it.

I never said take the ability to trash talk away. If two people get into a trash fight and enjoy it, who am I to stop them? But if someone is trash talking another person one-sided, where's the fun in that? The ignore function only goes so far.

I'm less concerned with the prevalence of trash talking, and more with the mindset behind it.

[Sonofsamus]

There's such a thing as constructive criticism, that's not what the OP is talking about. He's talking about the anonymity factor of online gaming. If for example, you were sitting down to a game of risk with random players (say at a gaming convention) you're probably going to stow some of the more repulsive language to yourself. players deserve to be treated with respect even if you're not face to face with them. It's one thing to tell a player you messed up and this is what you should consider doing to avoid that outcome, or friendly and funny banter back and forth, vs "I didn't win because my partner sucked" That's just plain rude. Unbridled negativity turns people off and turns them away, do you really want to make the player base worse off as a whole?

[magister]

One thing I've noticed is that the immature behavior like trash talking, name calling, and elitism are inversely proportional to the source's self-esteem and personal ability.

In lay terms, someone who calls you names if you lose, calls you names if you win, is probably doing so because the only way they can make themselves feel better is to put other people down. It gives them an inflated sense of worth, that little thrill that oh, I'm better than this person because I can insult them. And it's not harmless. Anyone who's been verbally abused, whether it be at school, home, or the workplace, can attest to this.


Absolutely true, and notice how quickly the trash talking defender was to rush in and say "NUH UH!" without any tangible arguments as to why it was wrong.

This is good old fashioned human nature and psychology. It's completely psychologically valid. Those who are more likely to insult and belittle others are compensating for their own personal issues. It's a classic psychological mechanism that is very well understood. People who are well adujsted don't even feel the desire to do such things, except in a rare bit of fun.

But denial and rationalization are waaaay to strong of human drives. They will just say "nope!" and walk away, convinced that they owned the conversation.

Everyone else can see better, for themselves.

What trash talking people are doing is the metaphorical equivalent of slapping you accross the face, and then when you stand back up against them, saying "stop whining". It's purely idiotic. It's transparent as hell. But people convinced themselves otherwise.

[Fors]

If you're going to try and tell me that nobody was a jerk running Deadmines when WoW launched then I think you're remembering things a little too rosey.

I never had a Deadmines group that was full of jerks. I didn't really run into any of the social problems in WoW until i got to Stranglethorn.

Oh the ganking.... the terrible terrible ganking. I miss being able to cast spells while still under the effects of invisibility potion. I could run into Horde groups and wipe them without them even knowing I was there.

[Aryxymaraki]

Has the internet taught you nothing?

It is NEVER too early for elitism!

[Drayen]

It's a game that tests your skill, of course there will be e-peen !*#**s everywhere.

But yea, i just cant get mad at my allies in RT because its a new game, even though sometimes im pissed at their newbness lol.

[Newcomplex]

Look. Their is trashing talking, and their is being mad that your partner doesn't know how to build units.

Trash talking is personal attacks, and extremely wanton language. Being angry is "omg what a noob".

If you honestly think a person is unjustified in being angry for losing a game because his partner doesn't know how to build units, your the one at fault here.

Also play 1v1. I haven't met a single extremely immature person yet. At worst, they are indifferent. Or get a partner at a similar skill level.



--

In the end OP, you are whining. Unless you seriously suggest people who call someone a "noob" should be banned from the game (buh bye idra lol), your just venting your problems on the internet. Stop plz.

[Inoob]

the only time i actually think that trash talking is justifiable is when one partner decides to ruin the game on purpose. not by playing bad, but by team killing, and the like.

other than that, trash talk is unnecessary.

you don't see basketball players calling each other noobs, or saying they suck, etc. the only times there is a foul language exchange is when one did something very wrong and perhaps got wrongly fouled.

its also not present in tennis, or golf, or soccer, baseball.

it only happens when someone pulls out the ass card that people feel like jumping that player, and the team might come to the players defense due to it being their team mate.

theres a reason why players are suspended for an x amount of games/time from games from behaving like a douche bag. it would be nice if this type of thing was possible with online games. it would be extremely hard to manage, but if it was made possible and manageable, it would make the community a better place.

kind of like blizzard taking a stance against hackers and banning their cdkey, but perhaps less extreme.

[Nerva]

it may be too early for elitism, but seriously....some of the partners ive had....

guys, this isnt freaking sim city, ok? this isnt caesar, or dawn of discovery, ok? the objective of the game isnt to build a pretty base and a cathedral.

have.

units.

out.

asap.

[Bibdy]

Its never too early for elitism!

[Nezdragon]

it may be too early for elitism, but seriously....some of the partners ive had....

guys, this isnt freaking sim city, ok? this isnt caesar, or dawn of discovery, ok? the objective of the game isnt to build a pretty base and a cathedral.

have.

units.

out.

asap.

Always have units out. Who else will admire your pretty base and cathedral?

[Winge]

As someone who was a top ten shaman (PVE) worldwide in a top ten guild during BC, I have to say you're coming to a logical conclusion based on fallacious grounds.

There's no excuse to behave that way. Period. If you joined a random encounter with a bad player, it's your fault for joining a random game. You want a good game paired to your skill level? get a teammate and play ladder. That's how things work.

I know that if I come up against a team with a bad partner that I got randomly, I will quickly go through the motions and bring them up to speed on how to resource, scout, and what units to build, who to attack, etc.

If we lose, no big deal. It's random. If I don't want to risk my ladder score, I play with a friend.

So elitism has no place in the video game world. I frown upon it, and even when I'm at the very top tier of a video game's talent (such as mechwarrior leagues back during black knight) I am cordial, friendly, helpful, and I do no less domination than the mean jerk who slams home as many "LOLNOOB"s as he does wins.

And as for anyone who says that elitism is what online gaming communities eventually do, and use that as an excuse, shame on you. Elitism and jerkey behavior is the number one thing that RUINS gaming communities. Starcraft, DOTA, WCIII, counter strike, the list goes on and on. All games that I stopped enjoying when the players started acting like 12 year olds. Even if I was better than my jerk opponents, I had no fun beating them through the flurry of offensive yammering.

+1

I admit, I've probably been the 'elitist jerk' out of frustration in WoW (FYI I've played SC1, WC3, and WoW...I am a big fan of Blizzard games, and I have been enjoying the Beta invite). I ended up realizing that it doesn't increase your skill level, just your blood pressure.

Guess what? There was a time you were horrible at this game too (maybe all the way back in SC1). You didn't learn this game in a day, and you won't master it in a lifetime. Cut people some slack.

[Ksib]

Y'know how every professional sport has sportsmanship rules? How pro games don't call each other worthless scrubs?


Pro players generally respect each other a lot better then the rest of the community. Yes, they do have sportsmanship rules, but it's a lot more then that. The main difference between us and professionals is that generally all we are is just a name. No one really care if they talk down to a player because there are almost no chances that you are ever going to see that person again. There is almost no identity. I know that I personally only have played a few people a couple of times and this is just beta.

The main point that I am trying to add is that there are a lot of players in ALL games that simply have no respect for any other player, competitive or not, good or bad.

Again, like it has been stated, this IS beta. We ARE helping test the game and balance the best we can. We are lucky enough to even be in the beta. Everyone that is playing Star2 right now is either doing so to have fun or to go pro. Either way everyone should acknowledge this and understand that not everyone wants to be the best or are trying to work on it.

Yes, It is too early for elitism.
But in my opinion, I wish it didn't matter.

[Samus]

In the end OP, you are whining. Unless you seriously suggest people who call someone a "noob" should be banned from the game (buh bye idra lol), your just venting your problems on the internet. Stop plz.

This is an example of some of the comments made in this thread that I am responding to. I couldn't quote them all.

Yes, I play WoW. But that's not where my gaming background started. I started on Blizzard's games with Warcraft II when it had been released for maybe seven months. I then went back and bought the original Warcraft. I own Starcraft and Brood War. Prior to that, I was playing Command & Conquer and DUNE. RTS's are NOT alien to me. But it has been a few years since I've played Starcraft. Given my work schedule, I get about two to three hours max a day to play. I'm working on getting back to form. I almost always "Random" so I can learn the strengths and weaknesses of all the races. So I think it's fair to say I know what I'm doing. Even if it is taking me a little time to get the mechanics to 100%.

That being said, having played the game at maybe a grand total of twenty five hours in a week's time, I haven't mastered it. Kudos to everyone who has but I am still practicing. Am I a noob? Well, technically, yes, I am. But then so is everyone else if we are to use the "new player" aspect of that adjective. For people to start going around insulting other player's level of expertise this early on is a bit inappropriate. Four or five months down the road and I am more accepting. One week!? Folks sure can build those tall pedestals they sit on quickly.

As for the comment that I'm complaing because I have a low self esteem, geez!! Presumptious butthead much? You make an awful lot of assumptions about someone you have never met. Take the first three letters of "assumption" and that's what I think of YOU, pal.

Trash talk is fine. Although it seems a bit out of place when you're talking to someone who is on your side. Constructive critism is fine and I have gotten some and been appreciative of it. But when I'm overrun by a rush and my ally tells everyone "My partner was a noob / censored word," I don't find that helpful. When it happens consistantly, even while I am TRYING to improve (and frankly, I'm not THAT bad,) it takes a bit of enjoyment out of the game for me.

This is also the beta. I was under the impression that Blizzard is watching this to improve their game. If the beta is like WoW Public Test Realm, ToS infractions get you thrown out because the company cannot accurately test their product if they have to deal with disruptive behavior.

Perhaps civility and politeness is too much to ask anymore.

[Krazytrumpet]

Why are there WoW carebears in my SC2? wtf...

[Samus]

Why are there WoW carebears in my SC2? wtf...To quote Zarhym, "Have a slice of ego pie."

[Ksib]

Why are there WoW carebears in my SC2? wtf...

And I know a handful of people in the beta that don't play wow. Never mind, the countless that aren't in the beta. I don't play WoW, not my cup of tea. But because I want players to be civil means I have to be a WoW head. Ridiculous.

[Noid]

And I know a handful of people in the beta that don't play wow. Never mind, the countless that aren't in the beta. I don't play WoW, not my cup of tea. But because I want players to be civil means I have to be a WoW head. Ridiculous.

Lol its the internet, not some ultra PC carebear dreamland. Harden up a bit. It's just text on a screen, not a boot in the teeth.

[Krazytrumpet]

Lol its the internet, not some ultra PC carebear dreamland. Harden up a bit. It's just text on a screen, not a boot in the teeth.

This.

[Joneleth]

+1

Maybe this's why I'm in Copper for RT and in Platinum with all 3 of my ATs.

[Wretched]

i havn't seen it much in SC2 yet, and in WoW, i feel i'm part of a friendly guild.

I usually just ignore it, I know that i'm better than anybody that decides to spend their time cussing at people anonymously like the coward they are over the internets, it really is the worst of all cowardly acts, when there are no consequences, i'd love to see some of these jerks so this stuff to ones face (i can dream can't I?)

[Terrorvision]

oooo I love a good analogy. I wanna play too. k, say someone thought they were important but really they were just another nobody. You are that guy right now.

This is on the first page but damn I stopped reading right there because no other post in this thread will be as entertaining.

[mark]

This is on the first page but damn I stopped reading right there because no other post in this thread will be as entertaining.

Yah I laughed hard at the irony of someone attacking trash talk.....by trash talking haha =]

[chris]

Don't bother with 2v2, it's just frustrating. You'll learn 10 times faster in 1v1 matches.

I disagree, I love 2v2 compared to 1v1. Usually if my pub 2v2 partner sucks I can 1v2 because my pub 2s rank is much much lower than my rated rank with my friend.

[honeybadger]

}

It enhances the competitive element of the game to make it more exciting. When I get trash talked, I don't cry. I watch my replay and figure out what I did wrong. I accept the fact that I got stomped, and I get better.

We're in beta, yes, but that doesn't stop people from wanting to be competitive and make things interesting. This guy is crying his eyes out saying he'll just stick to single player if the big bad boys on the internets keep pointing out his lack of skill. I'm just telling him that his pity party doesn't help him get any better, and if he wants to play online, he needs to improve his game.


No excuses for childish behavior. It's frowned upon in the professional sports world, it's equally frowned upon by those of us with an IQ above room temperature.

You can (I've done it very often) point out things a person needs to improve on without resorting to childish, demeaning insults.

I'll post a hypothetical. I kill a player with a super cheese closeby barracks planted outside his base in the first five minutes of play. There are two options here:

The one you advocate- "Lol noob u suck"

The one I advocate - "Work on your scouting more. I had a rax right outside your base."

[honeybadger]

Completely untrue.

You people won't be happy until in game chat is a thing of the past, and the only communication with your opponent/team mate will be through a drop down menu with pre-written comments.

Oh, and to clarify, my trash talk is aimed mostly at people of equal skill, or better. I don't play RT, so I don't get the chance to rip on noobs, but when I was an RTS noob, I used those insults to fuel my desire to get better at the game.

Based on what I've read (which is admittedly a small, though clear sampling) about you, you're the type that can never just take it like a man, in game or out. Someone makes fun of you, you HAVE to retaliate, and likely, escalate.

You're the kid who was likely teased in school (I was too, don't think anything of it) and rather than growing the healthy skillset of laughing along with the people, quietly knowing you were going to one day invent the atomic fission iphone computer hybrid perpetual motion car, you resorted to just taking out your own newfound insecurities on others.

So do us all a favor and stop trashtalking outside of your personal friends. It just makes you look an ass.

[Garrett]

calling a team mate a noob doesnt have to be over analyzed. Perhaps they simply meant their partner was a major contributor to the loss. I had one partner that i would deem noob espcially since he called himself "rusty" but only had 2 barracks and marines after 15 minutes.

There are noobs in this game now, they are the ones like that guy described. Anyone else who is doing something meaningful/contributing is not a noob. Later on you have to do more than just contribute, you have to contribute in a productful manner.

[Xnimativ]

ITT: op wants to play random 2's without ever being told he's bad.

it takes too much time to ask your partner if "you can make a suggestion" in the middle of a game, telling them what to do is probably easier (i dont play random 2s), i see your point in people automatically talking !@*% instead of offering insight, but most people won't take the insight as anything more than an insult to their ability anyhow. (especially if you aren't taking the time to type out "excuse me, i notice you are doing x, and it would be more beneficial if you did y")

my point is that theres no time for this, if your allie is calling you a noob, and he is outproducing you and staying ontop of the game, just ask him what to do or die while he counters them

[Xnimativ]

No excuses for childish behavior. It's frowned upon in the professional sports world, it's equally frowned upon by those of us with an IQ above room temperature.

You can (I've done it very often) point out things a person needs to improve on without resorting to childish, demeaning insults.

I'll post a hypothetical. I kill a player with a super cheese closeby barracks planted outside his base in the first five minutes of play. There are two options here:

The one you advocate- "Lol noob u suck"

The one I advocate - "Work on your scouting more. I had a rax right outside your base."


seriously dude, i have not seen a single person say "lol noob u suck" during a 1v1, thats ridiculous. if they did, why wouldn't you just write it off as a 12 year old...(which it is almost certain to be, if they are insulting you during their victory) at the same time, i don't see people needlessly offering advice to their opponents (unless they ask, which i've done, and i'm sure others have done, and usually people will give advice unless they feel like they dont have time)

[Rsb]

Yeeeah. It IS too early for elitism, but it's only bound to get worse.

2v2's are indeed frustrating - Ive gotten considerably better just playing 1v1's because 9 times out of 10 when youre playing the teams, one of you gets ganged up on while the other either tries to pull off a come from behind victory, or struggle to keep up and eventually lose.

Premade 2v2's wouldnt be bad though.

[Terralisk]

I get you. I had a partner who whined because I was late to save his expo. Never mind that I was also under attack and that I pushed the attack back.

[honeybadger]

seriously dude, i have not seen a single person say "lol noob u suck" during a 1v1, thats ridiculous. if they did, why wouldn't you just write it off as a 12 year old...(which it is almost certain to be, if they are insulting you during their victory) at the same time, i don't see people needlessly offering advice to their opponents (unless they ask, which i've done, and i'm sure others have done, and usually people will give advice unless they feel like they dont have time)

Then you don't play much because I've seen plenty of the former and done lots of the latter.

Your justifications are based around the "sink or swim" method of teaching someone to swim.

It's horrible, ill-concieved, and just creates kids who can't swim because of bad experiences and memories.

[Samus]

ITT: op wants to play random 2's without ever being told he's bad.
You're not paying attention. I did NOT say that. I said it is too early in the game's life to be doing the "I'm better then you are" crap. Get back to us in 2011 when it may be relevant.

it takes too much time to ask your partner if "you can make a suggestion" in the middle of a game, telling them what to do is probably easier (i dont play random 2s), i see your point in people automatically talking *removed censored word *instead of offering insight, but most people won't take the insight as anything more than an insult to their ability anyhow. (especially if you aren't taking the time to type out "excuse me, i notice you are doing x, and it would be more beneficial if you did y")

my point is that theres no time for this, if your allie is calling you a noob, and he is outproducing you and staying ontop of the game, just ask him what to do or die while he counters them

So you're saying that because I'm still in the process of learning that it is socially acceptable to be harrassed about it? In your line of thinking, kids in first grade who are just learning to read should be told out loud that they are stupid morons who should be shot for failing to read. Yeaaah. That's good.

I hope you're very, very good at this game, Xnimativ.sctwo. You'll need to be to support your "point."

[Shinosai]

As a person who has been as high as rank 4 in 2v2 RT, I have this to say:

Ignore your ally and you will do better.

unless you're on twilight fortress in which case if your ally is an idiot good luck

[Akhtal]

First of all, don't play RTs if you're any serious about getting better. It might be good if you're just starting to learn SC/RTS, the different units and general build orders, but once you're past a certain skill level, it's definitely the worst way to improve.

Secondly, I gotta say that trash talking a trash talker after stomping him to the ground is insanely satisfying.
I'll never forget the classic 12 year-old "k ur awful but w/e".

[Newcomplex]

Honestly, OP, let me ask you the question again...what are you actually trying to accomplish with this thread other then to get the attention of exactly 1382 people, a small minority whom are actually beta testers.

Meh, Me? I guess I make little witticisms at people I beat, though I like to be subtle about it. I doubt thats what the OP's talking about though.

People who say GL HF and "GG" when they're not actually losing piss me off 249212 times more then any trashtalker could lol. I DUN NEED U TO TELL ME BRAHSKI

[Scrysis]

As someone who was a top ten shaman (PVE) worldwide in a top ten guild during BC, I have to say you're coming to a logical conclusion based on fallacious grounds.

There's no excuse to behave that way. Period. If you joined a random encounter with a bad player, it's your fault for joining a random game. You want a good game paired to your skill level? get a teammate and play ladder. That's how things work.

I know that if I come up against a team with a bad partner that I got randomly, I will quickly go through the motions and bring them up to speed on how to resource, scout, and what units to build, who to attack, etc.

If we lose, no big deal. It's random. If I don't want to risk my ladder score, I play with a friend.

So elitism has no place in the video game world. I frown upon it, and even when I'm at the very top tier of a video game's talent (such as mechwarrior leagues back during black knight) I am cordial, friendly, helpful, and I do no less domination than the mean jerk who slams home as many "LOLNOOB"s as he does wins.

And as for anyone who says that elitism is what online gaming communities eventually do, and use that as an excuse, shame on you. Elitism and jerkey behavior is the number one thing that RUINS gaming communities. Starcraft, DOTA, WCIII, counter strike, the list goes on and on. All games that I stopped enjoying when the players started acting like 12 year olds. Even if I was better than my jerk opponents, I had no fun beating them through the flurry of offensive yammering.

+1

It's never too early for being polite and civil.

[Dagger]

seriously dude, i have not seen a single person say "lol noob u suck" during a 1v1, thats ridiculous. if they did, why wouldn't you just write it off as a 12 year old...(which it is almost certain to be, if they are insulting you during their victory) at the same time, i don't see people needlessly offering advice to their opponents (unless they ask, which i've done, and i'm sure others have done, and usually people will give advice unless they feel like they dont have time)

I have actually seen both, I have won a game and been told that I take "****s up my *** lol." I have also helped others with build orders and told people basic strategies. Im not trying to sound like a white knight but I also find it rude when you say "gl hf" at the beginning of a game, win it and people bring out petty insults. That is not what beta is for. Should this happen in retail, it wont perturb me but people who do that are the same people who make 10 different threads about why [Insert unit/ ability/ race] is OP, has no counters and call anyone who brings up a point that, god forbid, is different than their own a troll or noob.

"I just stomped you" is way more appropriate than "you fail at life go choke on something because I am the best" If someone is not making insults about someone as a person, you can have free reign to trash talk. But be sportsmanlike about it. Dont be a d bag.

The trash talk isnt the problem for me though, its the people who think this is the game and not the beta test. We are here to find imbalances, not tell others they need to stop playing.

Edit:


+1

It's never too early for being polite and civil.
Quoted for justice.

[Feverus]

Trash talkers: You're making the environment just a little bit worse for everyone. Man up and be helpful. The only constant in your random team games is you, and you're the one who makes the difference. Random team is about making friends and influencing people and it's lots and lots of work; it has as much to do with psychology as it does your 1v1 skill. Your ally probably deserves everything you have to say, but if you treat him properly you might eek enough good play out of him to win.

Trash-talked: Yes, I wish everyone was a bit more polite. I really wish the average person was nice enough I could actually talk to them about the game and get a bit of advice. It's not going to happen, so I deal and it makes me happy when I run into somebody cool. If you're losing lots, you might want to watch a few replays or VODs, maybe play some 1v1. It doesn't make the rest of us feel very good when you're countering battlecruisers with a large army of units that can't attack air, like my ally in the last game (which we won). Understand just a few of the very the simplest basics and you might find yourself treated much better.