Maphacks already?

[Rrowland]

I hoped that after 10+ years of improving technology we wouldn't have to worry much about this, but apparently they already exist. Please hop to banning / IP banning / MAC address banning / blowing up the computers of / drowning these players ASAP.

Pictures: http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/thread/495460-sc2-cheats

[hermis]

Blizzard is really going to have to do something about this.. and hopefully they will. If they pop up now hopefully blizz can get their detection software up to par so that hackers get their whole b.net accounts and all games tied to it banned for cheating.

[Yellowsnow]

I hoped that after 10+ years of improving technology we wouldn't have to worry much about this, but apparently they already exist. Please hop to banning / IP banning / MAC address banning / blowing up the computers of / drowning these players ASAP.

Pictures: http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/thread/495460-sc2-cheats

I wish they would do like HON does and only give the client data that it can see. I would pay for a monthly service if blizzard would host the games and guarantee no hacks.

[Fallentimes]

I definitely hate the idea of a subscription service for SC2, but I think they should do whatever is possible to remove the hacks and those who use them from the game. I'm pretty amazed that after all this time there isn't solid detection against this stuff.

[Darkness]

It's not complete yet, he just has the early steps to a maphack complete already.

[Michael]

Yeah I wish they would use HoN technology for the prevent of maphacks.

[Redrooster]

Pffff. If you have to use a maphack to win a game and feel better about yourself then you're already a loser, no matter how high on the ladder you are.

Pathetic.

[Tehschoolbus]

Pffff. If you have to use a maphack to win a game and feel better about yourself then you're already a loser, no matter how high on the ladder you are.

Pathetic.

The problem isn't how much a loser the people are, its that everyone else has to suffer. Hackers are like cyber-terrorists when it comes to gaming. I'm just glad blizz will likely be able to force hackers to buy a whole new cdkey every time they get caught cheating.

[Totz]

Last I checked HoN wasn't an RTS; it's a hero defense. Why is it being compared to SC2 so often lately?

[Michael]

Nobody comparing HoN to Sc2 gameplay. We are comparing it's multiplayer technology.

[Strimen]

Last I checked HoN wasn't an RTS; it's a hero defense. Why is it being compared to SC2 so often lately?


It's still an RTS. You just don't build bases in it, which isn't a requirment of the RTS genre (see the Myth series as a prime example.) Some heroes in HoN do infact create armies of controlled units to fight in the game. Same in League of Legends the controls are the same as your typical RTS, just the bases are predefined and you focus on item buying vs base building.

But as the other poster already said we are compaing their networking code, which could be pretty much the same and both games would function properly. Heck its based of DotA which was a simple map mod of WC3 using their network code, so there is your example of truthiness to my statement. ;-)

[Endrick]

As great as this game is, maphack can ruin it. I wish Blizzard would really make this a priority and keep it a priority.

[Jitterbug]

Maphacks aren't going to work with SC2. The second blizzard detects one your account will be banned, which means possibly your entire battle.net account, any games you have bought, your wow account, everything is at risk for using hacks.

And since SC2 is linked to your battle.net account you will not be able to access any online functionality at all. All you'll get is campaign and offline skirmish.

[BeL]

I'm sure anyone intending to use hacks wont be linking SC2 to the same battle.net as all their other accounts...

[Jitterbug]

Their SC2 account will still be gone. And they'll have to buy a new copy. Worth it for a maphack? I don't think so.

[Cirno]

SC2 can't use HoN's technology because the playerbase is too large. HoN works by using clusters of dedicated servers that host HoN games. This is also why you can easily reconnect after dropping.

They can do this because there are no more than a couple hundred hon games occurring at any given time. SC2 is going to have millions of players. Hosting dedicated servers for every single SC2 game played is completely unfeasible. It's not like running a WoW server. For one, WoW pays for its bandwidth costs via subscriptions. The operating costs required for hosting a million games at once would also likely require a subscription and they won't do that. S2 Games is running a much, much smaller operation.

[Cirno]

Please stop posting such non sense. You're so uneducated in everything you posted it's pathetic to read

HoN uses dedicated servers. SC2 doesn't. This is also how S2 is able to autosave every replay online.

I can't tell if you are trolling or not.

[Sydarm]

HoN uses dedicated servers. SC2 doesn't. This is also how S2 is able to autosave every replay online.

I can't tell if you are trolling or not.


I'm sure SC2 will have MILLIONS of players on at any given moment

Like seriously, grow some logic before you post

[Jitterbug]

I can't tell if you are trolling or not.

He is and has been reported as such.

[Landsoul]

Just got drop kicked tonight also. Replay didn't save. As soon as I destroyed the guy's force and walked into his base I dropped. Behind a large university internet line also.

Makes me not want to play, having my record ruined by such crap.

[Tehschoolbus]

I'm sure SC2 will have MILLIONS of players on at any given moment

Like seriously, grow some logic before you post

Instead of insulting them, just ignore them or correct them with hard facts. Can't fight an assumption with another assumption.

[Jitterbug]

It happens to everyone. I'm sure you have gotten at least one win from someone who has been dropped.

And you have to remember this IS beta, it's not going to work perfectly.

[Wobahs]

I do not care about records, or win:loss ratios, but I do care about fun, and maphack takes the fun out of an RTS game.

[Pat]

I dont know if theres a drophack out, i doubt there is though, you might have just had internet trouble at an odd time
Watch to see if it happens again

As for the maphack, afaik its not public yet, so very few people will have it

Heres a pic of it in action (this is the original one, made by the first person to make an sc2 maphack, i wont name any names)
http://i46.tinypic.com/xc1ky.jpg

Heres a pic of a newer version that was made by someone else
Its being tested in replay mode, but it works in ladder games too
http://i47.tinypic.com/atkd4y.jpg

I dont maphack, i will never hack
I didnt take the pictures posted here
Im only posting them for reference purposes


Ive actually been meaning to ask a blue where we can send hacks to
I remember there was an email address hacks@blizzard.com or something like that
Should we still send them there?
Or does sc2 have a new place to deal with this crap

Ive sent hacks to that email before, and never got any response or even confirmation that they acknowledged my email
Except once for a floodbot, which they didnt do anything about

[Vonlego]

Why would you protect the map hack creators as a beta tester by hiding their names?

[Pat]

They wont be using the names they released the hacks under as their names for the beta

And i dont know their account names for the beta
It would be stupid for them to associate their beta account to their hacker name in any way

I wasnt protecting them
The only reason i didnt say the names was because:

1. It makes it easier for people reading this to find consistent updates to hacks
2. It gives them more attention, which they shouldnt have

Knowing the hacker name wont do any good

[Brin]

Think about it: you get a name, everyone googles it, cheats run rampant.

[ninja]

Yes they will. They already do and always have.

It's absolutely less of a priority with D2 / SC1, and probably harder due to 1) higher-cost:lower-benefit on old games, 2) they are outsourcing servers for bnet 1.0 whereas they handle WoW and Bnet 2.0 directly.

WoW is very good at handling this stuff, isn't it? Why wouldn't bnet 2.0?

[Wobahs]

World of Warcraft is not an RTS, and of course it's a low priority for Diablo and Diablo 2 because maphacking doesn't screw over other players.

Maphack hasn't ever been easy to fight against, but it must be done.

[Kinaesthesia]

Just got drop kicked tonight also. Replay didn't save. As soon as I destroyed the guy's force and walked into his base I dropped. Behind a large university internet line also.

Makes me not want to play, having my record ruined by such crap.

I had a drop kick as well, yesterday. I thought it was just an accident at first.

But of course I'm still doing practice league, so I didn't care too much.

[Szarka]

Blizzard wont do anything about the hacks because:

1) It's difficult and they don't have a good solution.
2) They don't care because where it really matters, in e-sports settings, it's unthinkable that anyone would use a maphack since they're being watched as they play.

Haven't you ever heard of Warden for WoW?

[Ignorance]

HoN uses dedicated servers. SC2 doesn't. This is also how S2 is able to autosave every replay online.

I can't tell if you are trolling or not.
HoN isn't THAT small. One million players.
Size only lowers the price per individual (how much money they make is also based off of this) for hosting mass servers. Also, I was under the impression that ladder uses dedicated servers.

[Cirno]

HoN isn't THAT small. One million players.
Size only lowers the price per individual (how much money they make is also based off of this) for hosting mass servers. Also, I was under the impression that ladder uses dedicated servers.

I'm 99% positive there are no SC2 dedicated servers. I could be wrong, but the evidence is in the fact that someone lagging slows down the game for everyone, indicating that it is not client-server. Notice that in hon, someone else lagging has no effect on you, because you aren't actually connected to them.

If I'm wrong, and there are SC2 dedicated servers, then they could be rewritten to only send clients visible parts of the map like HoN does, with the downside that replays would have to be downloaded from the server after the game rather than being recorded locally.

I honestly have no idea how S2 manages to keep its operating costs down, it seems like a huge amount of bandwidth and disk space to pay for to host all these games and save replays. And yeah I just looked, I didn't realize that HoN's player population has grown like 6x since I started playing, heh.

[Blupo]

I played against a Zerg player. From the replay, he never scouted outside his base, his overlords never moved the whole game, and he was able to fully anticipate when i was going to attack. He was also "afk" for the first 10 seconds of the game... probably to turn on maphack. Ridiculous.

Please fix this Blizzard. I am not a pro that has a wide enough skill margin to overcome maphackers... it's like playing poker when your opponent can see your hand. I would like to have fair games.

-- Also, i think the player camera view on replays is bugged. I chose to camera view the suspected maphacker and his screen never once left his base even when his zerglings were shredding my base on the other side of the map.

[Anon]

Maphacks aren't going to work with SC2. The second blizzard detects one your account will be banned, which means possibly your entire battle.net account, any games you have bought, your wow account, everything is at risk for using hacks.

And since SC2 is linked to your battle.net account you will not be able to access any online functionality at all. All you'll get is campaign and offline skirmish.

SC2 will require you to log in first
so if you're banned,you are out of the game completely.

[Dreuel]

SC2 is going to have millions of players.

I'm sure SC2 will have MILLIONS of players on at any given moment

Um, you're saying the same thing as this guy, why are you arguing with him?

[Adamu]

Funny story, my last opponent accused me of cheating because I knew exactly where his base was.

We were on a 1v1 map.

[Yoichi]

firstly LAWL@Adamu.lucavious

[Dlips]

+1 good one after all the flames

[Pat]

Theres a public maphack out right now, its been out for the past couple days

It shows the info that you would have in a replay during the game (the info panels)
It reveals the whole map
It can start mining for you right when the match starts, and build workers for you as well

Because of the way replays are handled all the info thats available in replays can be made available in game
Right now only the info panels are in the hack but its only a matter of time until everything you can see in a replay is in it
Including units being trained, rally points, clicks, building placements, everything

Blizz should change the way this info is gathered and saved to the replay, it shouldnt be too hard to prevent hacks from having that info

Preventing maphacks on the other hand is impossible without dedicated servers running each game
If SC2 used dedicated servers, nothing extra would have to be permanently stored by the server once the game is finished
Any data the replay needs could be sent by the server at the end of the game

Why they didnt go with dedicated servers is beyond me
It looks like they are using the same method they used back with SC1 on bnet1.0
A method thats over 10 years old

The thing that seems odd to me is that you can host custom games without opening any ports
Which implies its using a server of some sort
Unless it uses ports that i already have open which seems unlikely


On the upside the hack thats out right now has no anti-detection, so anyone using it will most likely be banned if sc2 has any sort of anti hacking measures in place

[Propanemilo]

Good. The more maphacks that come out during beta the better. Blizzard will have them stomped by release.

[Raxus]

The one downfall of PC is that people will hack. The good thing is very few will do it successfully. And if a hack becomes widespread to the point where you MIGHT actually encounter someone using it, Blizz will smash it rather quickly.

[Raxus]

Funny story, my last opponent accused me of cheating because I knew exactly where his base was.

We were on a 1v1 map.

And these type of players attribute for 90% of the hack rumors. Chances are after accusing you he spammed some message board about how Starcraft 2 has been hacked. lol.

[Psiwolf]

Haven't you ever heard of Warden for WoW?

Doing such a bang up job on botters and underground mining hackers...

[Mut]

Nobody comparing HoN to Sc2 gameplay. We are comparing it's multiplayer technology.

Why not compare wow then, wow has the same "technology" in place, only relevant data is transmitted.

I do agree that it's odd that a server hosted game wouldn't just serve up necessary information.

[Lampanator]

Why not compare wow then, wow has the same "technology" in place, only relevant data is transmitted.

I do agree that it's odd that a server hosted game wouldn't just serve up necessary information.

because wow carries a 15 dollar a month pricetag.

heres some basic math that shouldn't even need to be finished to illustrate.

WoW has (last i checked) 11 MILLION accounts paying.

so,
11,000,000 x 15 = (Xbox HEUGE $$) Dedicated servers? A drop in the bucket.


Battlenet = lets say like starcraft... 7 million players

so,
7,000,000 x 0 = 0 dollars being put into battle net since it's free.

Dedicated servers cost money. Hell, free servers cost money. we should be grateful we get any servers at all. considering that it's a leech on blizzard's dime.

If you want dedicated servers, it's gonna cost money. and blizzard has already stated that they will never put a fee on Battlenet.

[Primoris]

pathetic scrubs needing maphacks to win in a video game.

[Mut]

because wow carries a 15 dollar a month pricetag.

heres some basic math that shouldn't even need to be finished to illustrate.

WoW has (last i checked) 11 MILLION accounts paying.

so,
11,000,000 x 15 = (Xbox HEUGE $$) Dedicated servers? A drop in the bucket.


Battlenet = lets say like starcraft... 7 million players

so,
7,000,000 x 0 = 0 dollars being put into battle net since it's free.

Dedicated servers cost money. Hell, free servers cost money. we should be grateful we get any servers at all. considering that it's a leech on blizzard's dime.

If you want dedicated servers, it's gonna cost money. and blizzard has already stated that they will never put a fee on Battlenet.

My point was that blizzard knows the technology to complete something like that, and if they didn't do it they probably didn't do it for a specific reason.

If battle.net games are fully hosted on blizzard servers (an mmo model) then I can't come up with a reason for the transmission of unnecessary data to be taking place. If it's still a partial or complete peer to peer model than the reasoning for that data to be in place is self evident.

I don't know anything about HoN beyond what I've heard, but either it's free to play online or it's not, either way the situation doesn't change, and a corollary to wow is pretty much the just as relevant. I'm not really sure why you flew off into a wow revenue rage, i still can't figure out the relevance to the server architecture. Either its server based (and thus should only be sending relevant data) or its peer based and has to have all the data available. Money is entirely unrelated to the technical aspect of server based or not.

[Bestmarine]

Funny story, my last opponent accused me of cheating because I knew exactly where his base was.

We were on a 1v1 map.

I called a guy a hacker once because he ran his force directly to my secret expansion that he didnt scout. Little did that fool know that that secret expansion was a distraction to my real secret expansion i placed on the other side of the map.

Still lost though, 4 marauders do better damage than 5 marines. Its all soo exciting. On topic though, I hope blizzard finds a fun solution to deal with hackers. Now I create an example, beware: A guy activates his hack in a game, and suddenly you get to choice what to do with him.

-Nuke drops on every building and unit hes got
-Forgot the rest.

Now for the best part-- You get to do this stuff before you get drop hacked. Yeah, how great is that? A feature that works do to my clever decision to allow you to do it.

Originally posted by Mut.mut

and a corollary to wow is pretty much the just as relevant.

Please refrain from making up words while on the internet. Thanks!

-MWD

this post is done

[Zakaria]

How is an Indie developer, like S2 games, able to use dedicated servers with no monthly fees, while their product (HON) isn't even out yet and a HUGE company like Blizzard can not?

And just to let you know, HON has many many more players online right now than SC2 beta, in fact it's been stated in an interview with Dustin Browder that they wana keep the level of concurrency in SC2 beta to about 10k.

What level of concurrency to you want to get to before the end of the beta?

Dustin Browder: I think we want to maintain about 10,000. It’s sort of our goal, and we’ve just about hit that at this point. I can see we’re at 9,000-something right now, and 10,000 is the goal. That makes our match-maker really happy, makes it really sing when we’re about at those numbers. If we get much higher than that we’ll just leave it, and if we see concurrency fall off we’ll add more keys until we get back to those numbers.

[Tensor]

How is an Indie developer, like S2 games, able to use dedicated servers with no monthly fees, while their product (HON) isn't even out yet and a HUGE company like Blizzard can not?

And just to let you know, HON has many many more players online right now than SC2 beta, in fact it's been stated in an interview with Dustin Browder that they wana keep the level of concurrency in SC2 beta to about 10k.

I completely agree. HoN on average has 40,000+ players on at any time. Blizzard with their budget of eleventy gazillion dollars, can't support dedicated servers for SC2? It's not like HoN has a subscription. It is just intensely infuriating when you've been on some tiny company's gaming service and it has many features and vast improvements over a giant gaming monolith.

[Yaz]

It's a beta, I hope plenty of people do try to cheat so they can improve their detection before things go live. With only a single account per key it means every ban is going to be a key ban which is going to costly for people with a brand new game. For an old game like SC1 or D2 it's more of an issue simply because people can get new game keys for $5. Lose access to your $50 game though, that's going to hurt. Later, lose access to your $50 game and it's two expansions for cheating, ouch.

[Yaz]

How is an Indie developer, like S2 games, able to use dedicated servers with no monthly fees, while their product (HON) isn't even out yet and a HUGE company like Blizzard can not?

And just to let you know, HON has many many more players online right now than SC2 beta, in fact it's been stated in an interview with Dustin Browder that they wana keep the level of concurrency in SC2 beta to about 10k.



HON is using their so called beta to drive advertisement for their product and get people hooked. It's not really a beta and they long ago started taking orders for the product. Heck I've owned it for months now, my account is marked as owning and so are many others. If you really think it's a beta then you're kidding yourself. It's basically a released product with an invite only demo. Hence why they're more than happy to get as many people as possible, they're selling their game.

SC2 beta is an actual beta at this point. It's being used to really test the platform and get feedback. If they wanted they could throw hardware at it and support more but they don't need that for testing and it's just going to make it harder to sort through the feedback. So really why should they?

[Stratosspear]

Doing such a bang up job on botters and underground mining hackers...

They are. Your 2 or 3 anecdotes about how you saw botters and now you think it's rampant isn't evidence of anything.

[Wintermute]

Pffff. If you have to use a maphack to win a game and feel better about yourself then you're already a loser, no matter how high on the ladder you are.

Pathetic.

It is pathetic, but people figure they won't get caught.

The problem is when these things become common then either every one has to use them, or a lot of people have to suffer frustrating losses to hackers (and get knocked down the ladder unfairly) or people just stop playing competitively.

I stopped playing WC3 when it became fairly obvious that the majority of my opponents were map hacking. I went from being a top 25 caliber player to barely being in the top 100, in the space of a week (and was still dropping), because all of a sudden my opponents seemed to have uncanny insight into the perfect time to attack, what units to build, when they could safely expand, etc despite never making an effort to scout.

As a result I went from enjoying WC3 immensely to never playing it again. There's no joy in competing against people who are obviously cheating, unless it's to talk a ton of trash to those who cheat and still can't win.

[Fuse]

I have seen videos of the maphack working on the cracked single player version

I have not seed these maphacks for online play though.

Can anyone confirm with a replay that shows someone maphacking? I would like to see this.

(I know you cant "see" a maphack in the replay but you can see if they know things without looking)

[MurDeR]

So sick that maphack is already out ;< makes me so mad actually ;d